Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

The delusions run deep. Embrace the delusions.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's always good to post a vague criticism and let posters assume its about them.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I only want Bennett on the top line if he provides a clear upgrade on Ferland. 20-25 goals is not an upgrade.

IMO that depends on Ferland as well. If he can still score 20 playing with Jankowski, then having Bennett score 25 on the top line is a win for everybody.

Tkachuk - Janko - Ferland or Bennett

Is the line combo I would like to see take off, and could really give us that Tampa Bay style second scoring line at a low cap hit.

If we land a top line player, it's conceivable that ends up a line with Ferland pushed down, but if no big fish are caught, Ferland might look really good on a line with Tkachuk and our biggest centre, which would open up a top line spot for Bennett.

More likely they run the 3M line again, so Tkachuk can continue to learn about defensive defensiveness.

I'm just rambling now. Sorry.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I only want Bennett on the top line if he provides a clear upgrade on Ferland. 20-25 goals is not an upgrade.

Depends what your goal is. If you want to get the most offense out of Jankowski and Bennett in the near future it may be best to split them up and play them with veteran offensive contributors.

In one thread I mused about GG trying this last year and why he didn’t
Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Ferland

But that may still be a viable way for Peters to put both Bennett and Jankowski in situations to suceed offensively and gain confidence. It’s not simply about maximizing the 1st line in isolation. Part of the thinking when constructing the lineup needs to be how do we put our young players in situations to suceed and grow. GG failed on that front. Peters playing callups on the 1st line suggests he may be light years ahead of GG in this respect.

You wanna develop both Janko and Bennett into top two line players? Then give them both opportunities to play with established top two line players. Not play them with each other while they’re struggling and cap that line off with a 4th line grinder.

I’m optimistic that Peters will give better opportunities to Bennett and Jankowski than GG did.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Depends what your goal is. If you want to get the most offense out of Jankowski and Bennett in the near future it may be best to split them up and play them with veteran offensive contributors.

In one thread I mused about GG trying this last year and why he didn’t
Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Ferland

But that may still be a viable way for Peters to put both Bennett and Jankowski in situations to suceed offensively and gain confidence. It’s not simply about maximizing the 1st line in isolation. Part of the thinking when constructing the lineup needs to be how do we put our young players in situations to suceed and grow. GG failed on that front. Peters playing callups on the 1st line suggests he may be light years ahead of GG in this respect.

You wanna develop both Janko and Bennett into top two line players? Then give them both opportunities to play with established top two line players. Not play them with each other while they’re struggling and cap that line off with a 4th line grinder.

I’m optimistic that Peters will give better opportunities to Bennett and Jankowski than GG did.

I think the goal has to be to build 4 effective lines, and Ferly is a good "3rd wheel" on that 1st line, which then means that Treliving needs to find a top tier RW'er to play with Bennett and Jankowski. On top of that, I'd also want them to get another "3rd wheel" that we could use on the Backlund line, pushing Frolik to the 4th to help make that line stronger, alongside a new 4th line centre.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - New addition
Bennett - Jankowski - New addition
Frolik - New addition - Lazar
Shore

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think the goal has to be to build 4 effective lines, and Ferly is a good "3rd wheel" on that 1st line, which then means that Treliving needs to find a top tier RW'er to play with Bennett and Jankowski. On top of that, I'd also want them to get another "3rd wheel" that we could use on the Backlund line, pushing Frolik to the 4th to help make that line stronger, alongside a new 4th line centre.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - New addition
Bennett - Jankowski - New addition
Frolik - New addition - Lazar
Shore

I agree with that the goal is to build 4 effective lines. I also agree that Ferland fits just fine on the 1st line.

Where we differ I guess is that I think Backlund should be anchoring an elite two-way checking line. I don't think Backlund's offensive ceiling is as high as Jankowski/Bennett's. I think Backlund in an ideal world is an elite 3rd line centre. Therefore I'd want Jankowski fast tracked into being a #2 centre (unless they decide Bennett is up to the task). The way to do that IMO is to put Tkachuk as the offensive driver on that 2nd line. Who plays RW on that line? It'd have to be a new guy, Foo, or you could put both Tkachuk and Bennett on Janko's wing but that is a very inexperienced line.

My point was that the fastest way to get Bennett and Jankowski contributing may be to split them up and put them on lines when they aren't being asked to be the main offensive driver of the line.

For example imagine we got a guy like Kessel (but substitute whatever RW you want). You could have

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Kessel
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Klimchuk-Shore-Lazar

That puts both Jankowski and Bennett in easy situations to succeed. Jankowski would centre two elite offensive wingers making his job a lot easier and probably raising his confidence level quickly and permanently. Bennett with Backlund-Frolik isn't asking Bennett to be a star but he'd likely gain a lot of confidence playing on a strong, fast, two-way line like that.

Frolik is fine as a 3rd line winger. He's a bit too far up in the lineup to be a 2nd line winger IMO. I don't think he needs to be pushed to the 4th line.

In your scenario Bennett-Jankowski-new guy still pairs two young skilled guys who struggled with offensive confidence for most of last season. Why not make things easier on them and split them up? Its easier for them to succeed surrounded by proven offensive contributors rather than keeping them together and hoping they gain offensive confidence when that's what they struggled with last year. I see more potential for them to struggle in you keep them together as if they go through a dry spell they can both lose confidence at the same time. Splitting them up and surrounding them with proven talent makes it more likely they gain offensive confidence early and keep it.

[dfsflamesfan]

Hmmm, an interesting option would be if they solved the RW problem with one of their strengths. Perhaps they could convert Hamilton up front and have one of their young D step in.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hamilton
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Jankowski-Ferland
Mangiapagne/Klimchuk-Shore/Dube-Lazar/Foo/Brouwer

Gio-Hamonic
Brodie-Andersson/Valimaki
Stone-Andersson/Kylington/Valimaki/Kulak

[Heavy Jack]

Here’s my attempt:

Faulk + Lindholm for Bennett + Brodie

Stone for Hoffman

Ferland + Frolik + Kylington for Coyle + 24th overall

Draft Grigori Denisenko

Then sign Neal:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Hoffman - Jankowski - Coyle
Mangiapane - Lazar - Foo
Brouwer

Giordano - Hamilton
Kulak - Faulk
Valimaki - Hamonic
Andersson

Smith
Rittich


Thoughts?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Here’s my attempt:

Faulk + Lindholm for Bennett + Brodie

Stone for Hoffman

Ferland + Frolik + Kylington for Coyle + 24th overall

Draft Grigori Denisenko

Then sign Neal:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Hoffman - Jankowski - Coyle
Mangiapane - Lazar - Foo
Brouwer

Giordano - Hamilton
Kulak - Faulk
Valimaki - Hamonic
Andersson

Smith
Rittich


Thoughts?

Faulk is better than Brodie, and Lindholm is better than Bennett. I don't see how that deal gets done.

I also don't think Michael Stone gets Hoffman. Stone might be worth a late 2nd, and Hoffman is surely worth more than that (even with the current situation).

The last deal (Ferland + Frolik + Kylington for Coyle + 24th overall) is probably a little closer. I could see a lot of teams valuing Coyle though.

I like Grigori Denisenko. Hopefully they Flames take some gambles on smaller/skill guys. Neal would make sense to sign if the deal were somewhat reasonable.

But I still don't like the goaltending. Ugh.
The rest of the roster looks great.

[Harry Lime]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Foo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Kessel
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Bennett
Klimchuk - Shore - Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
Kylington - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson
Hamhuis

Ok, here we go.
Offence
Foo on the top line to start. He's a more talented offensive force than Ferland and isn't afraid of the dirty areas of the ice. Mangiapane on the Backlund line. Guys a scorer, let him play. Trade for Kessel. The big fish, and is within reach. Make Backlunds line an offensive one, albeit with an elite defensive centre. Backlund proved that he can play an offensive game at the Worlds. Third line makes or breaks the season. So much talent there. Klimchuk is the ultimate fourth line guy. No brainer for me.
Defense
See what we have in the best D prospects on the team. Kulak isn't a raw rookie anymore, and Andersson is pretty polished for a new guy. Sheltered minutes they might actually surprise other teams. Kylington is potentially a Brodie clone with better skating. Go to town. Pick up a 'mentor, but can still play' vet in someone like Hamhuis. He's 36, and would be an awesome support player.

I'm done with the 'only defensive line' as the second line.
Combinations of Ferland, Frolik, Stone and Brodie to make the Kessel trade work (based on the rumored ask). All have value.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Gaudreau - Monahan - Foo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Kessel
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Bennett
Klimchuk - Shore - Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
Kylington - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson
Hamhuis

Ok, here we go.
Offence
Foo on the top line to start. He's a more talented offensive force than Ferland and isn't afraid of the dirty areas of the ice. Mangiapane on the Backlund line. Guys a scorer, let him play. Trade for Kessel. The big fish, and is within reach. Make Backlunds line an offensive one, albeit with an elite defensive centre. Backlund proved that he can play an offensive game at the Worlds. Third line makes or breaks the season. So much talent there. Klimchuk is the ultimate fourth line guy. No brainer for me.
Defense
See what we have in the best D prospects on the team. Kulak isn't a raw rookie anymore, and Andersson is pretty polished for a new guy. Sheltered minutes they might actually surprise other teams. Kylington is potentially a Brodie clone with better skating. Go to town. Pick up a 'mentor, but can still play' vet in someone like Hamhuis. He's 36, and would be an awesome support player.

I'm done with the 'only defensive line' as the second line.
Combinations of Ferland, Frolik, Stone and Brodie to make the Kessel trade work (based on the rumored ask). All have value.

You've put your best defensive forward with two defensive liabilities. What's your shutdown line? At least put Bennett with Backlund and Kessel.

I also get that you need a combination to get Kessel but you've made a trade of all four of your potential chips. You don't need to trade all four to get Kessel. Probably only two and maybe three. If you trade three you might get Sheary as well as Kessel.

[Strange Brew]

Ferland is a decent complementary player on the first line and he looked good alot last year. Problem is when Gaudreau and Monahan don't score, the Flames don't win. Now I don't believe Gaudreau or Moanahan are any more inconsistent than other top players, but ideally the 3rd player on that line is a consistent performer who could get that line going even when the top guys aren't scoring. Unfortunately some nights Ferland is totally invisible.

Bennett could be that guy but right now he seems more dependent on others to produce, vs. being the catalyst on a line. His play fluctuates wildly based on his confidence level.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Ferland is a decent complementary player on the first line and he looked good alot last year. Problem is when Gaudreau and Monahan don't score, the Flames don't win. Now I don't believe Gaudreau or Moanahan are any more inconsistent than other top players, but ideally the 3rd player on that line is a consistent performer who could get that line going even when the top guys aren't scoring. Unfortunately some nights Ferland is totally invisible.

Bennett could be that guy but right now he seems more dependent on others to produce, vs. being the catalyst on a line. His play fluctuates wildly based on his confidence level.

I don't think adding a player to the top line necessarily helps scoring when Gaudreau and Monahan are cold. I think adding more scoring consistency down the lineup is a better choice. The Flames made the POs with room to spare when Backlund and Frolik (with Tkachuk) scored consistently. Last year they didn't, and neither did the third line.

There are two ways to approach it - add a top line guy and hope that moving Ferland to the third line or otherwise mixing the other lines improves scoring, or add a better scoring guy directly to one of the other lines. IMO the latter might be better because I don't think adding Ferland to the third line helps them as much as it hurts Ferland. If you put Ferland with Backlund and throw Tkachuk onto Jankowski/Bennett it might work, but again you are risking some Tkachuk production if it doesn't.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Ferland is a decent complementary player on the first line and he looked good alot last year. Problem is when Gaudreau and Monahan don't score, the Flames don't win. Now I don't believe Gaudreau or Moanahan are any more inconsistent than other top players, but ideally the 3rd player on that line is a consistent performer who could get that line going even when the top guys aren't scoring. Unfortunately some nights Ferland is totally invisible.

OR leave the top line alone cause it’s one of the best in the league and concentrate on making a second scoring line that is nearly as dangerous.

Then we’re harder to defend and don’t auto lose when Gaudreau-Monahan have an off night, which they will.

[Harry Lime]

That is an interesting conversation to have.

Does a team need a shutdown line anymore?

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't. I think that the idea of one massively defensive line has gone the way of the pure enforcer. The one trick ponies of the NHL (Vanek ect) are being left on the shelf in favor of players that can play a 200ft game and produce. There is no need to stifle one line to have them shut down a Crosby only to get killed by Malkin.

There are always going to be line matchups, but a dedicated line?

[Scroopy Noopers]

^ the 200ft players who can produce that you reference would be your shut down line. I agree you need 4 lines who can produce to be competitive. But one of those lines (at least) better be defensively responsible or you aren’t going anywhere.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

That is an interesting conversation to have.

Does a team need a shutdown line anymore?

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't. I think that the idea of one massively defensive line has gone the way of the pure enforcer. The one trick ponies of the NHL (Vanek ect) are being left on the shelf in favor of players that can play a 200ft game and produce. There is no need to stifle one line to have them shut down a Crosby only to get killed by Malkin.

There are always going to be line matchups, but a dedicated line?

I think the old shutdown line that was all defense and no offense is obselete. See the old Yelle type shutdown line.

The new style checking lines are two-way lines that defend at an elite level but also score. See Backlund, Kesler type lines.

The Flames will be a contender IMO when they have two good scoring lines and an elite two way checking line. We’re getting close to this, likely one top 6 forward and some progression from our youngsters away.

[Harry Lime]

But Backlund showed some true flash at the World's on the offensive side. Is he being asked to stifle that for a more defensive role to make up for the defensive shortcomings of the rest of the team?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

But Backlund showed some true flash at the World's on the offensive side. Is he being asked to stifle that for a more defensive role to make up for the defensive shortcomings of the rest of the team?

Being the most senior centerman on the team (Stajan's 4th line minutes notwithstanding), my head would say yes. Add to that, Gulutzan's system was awful at generating quality offensive chances, and you have a system that removes creativity at the expense of structure. 50/50 plays and all that which are great at limiting risk, but awful at creating offense. Players like Gaudreau were given a little more license to create, but even his moves became pretty stale over time, likely because of how he was being coached.

I honestly believe that we are going to see an offensive uptick in almost every player this year simply for the difference in style of play and a halfway decent power play.

[David Struch]

Loads of cash to spare towards constructing a new 2nd line...

Gaudreau (6.75) Monahan (6.375) Tkachuk (.925)
_______ (0.0) _______ (0.0) _______ (0.0)
Ferland (1.7) Backlund (5.35) Frolík (4.3)
Bennett (1.9) Jankowski (1.075) Brouwer (4.5)
Lazar (.95) Shore (1.017,5)

Giordano (6.75) Hamilton (5.75)
Brodie (4.650,4) Hamonic (3.857,143)
Andersson (.755,833) Stone (3.5)
Kulak (.715)

Smith (4.25)
Rittich (.797,5)

Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $80,000,000
Cap Hit: $66,815,043
Bonuses: $932,500
Cap Space: $15,184,957