Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I actually think your response is indicative of the fable they've bred into the fanbase that the owners concerns share the same priority as the fans concerns.

That you can't separate the legitimate business case and stewardship of very public personas for some of the wealthiest men in the country from the wins and losses record of the team they own illustrates just how successful they have been at controlling the messaging and branding as executed by King.

Being such a cynic, I find that a bit surprising coming from you, but like I've been saying, it's been effective.

Simple stewardship isn't remarkable. It's a basic job requirement.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

Simple stewardship isn't remarkable. It's a basic job requirement.

cool

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by Parallex

A new President & CEO.

Which really should happen, I think Ken King should retire and spend more time with his family. I mean Brad Treliving got a "Ken King doesn't get to meddle in what I do" clause to his contract, when they hired Burke word was it was so that Ken King could have more time to spend on the arena project (which he's clearly bungled), heck... given his "whoa is us!" dog and pony show he can't even claim really positive financial results. So he's pretty clearly not doing his job particularly well lately. He's 66 years old... that's clearly a respectable age to retire at.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Or Whoa, slow down there.

Maybe he's saying King is saying "we are slowing down".

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Sure never said he couldn’t

Ugh again with the 'you don't know rhetoric'? Shut this place down if that is the end point for any online discussion...really tiring to see people continue on with that kind of response to something that irks them. I think all of us as Flames fans can make a pretty educated statement that Ken King is long past his expiry date.

Actions say a heck of a lot when it comes to that guy and the Flames ownership group. Paper boy should be put out to pasture as his ego, like the mayors, is negatively impacting the process and will ultimately be a big reason a new building doesn't get done.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Ugh again with the 'you don't know rhetoric'? Shut this place down if that is the end point for any online discussion...really tiring to see people continue on with that kind of response to something that irks them. I think all of us as Flames fans can make a pretty educated statement that Ken King is long past his expiry date.

Actions say a heck of a lot when it comes to that guy and the Flames ownership group. Paper boy should be put out to pasture as his ego, like the mayors, is negatively impacting the process and will ultimately be a big reason a new building doesn't get done.

Challenging if someone knows enough to support their stated opinion is off sides now?
Sorry I disagree. Challenging someone to support their opinion is apart of debate.
You can have an opinion. I can challenge it.
That's how this works.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

And if the City were to put up half the money, the deal would be long since done.

Same could be said if the Flames were willing to put up half, too.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Same could be said if the Flames were willing to put up half, too.

Again it's not really about how much each side "puts up" for construction it's about how much each side get's back.

CSEC's contention that the return on a 50-50 cost split should be: CSEC 100% - City of Calgary: 0% is pretty absurd.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Again it's not really about how much each side "puts up" for construction it's about how much each side get's back.

CSEC's contention that the return on a 50-50 cost split should be: CSEC 100% - City of Calgary: 0% is pretty absurd.

you could argue it's CSEC 100% City <0% with all the extra asks the Flames had, free transit, free police security, city to pay insurance, city to pay provincial property tax... whatever other absurd demands the Flames had.

[powderjunkie]

Finally caught up on my favourite thread after being away for a while. Interested if anyone can shed some more light on what's been reported from STH events:

- King, in response to a fan's question, seemed to imply that members of the City violated terms of the non-disclosure agreement. This time around hopes everything remains private.

Regarding the new arena, pretty much hinted that there was a non disclosure agreement during the last round of discussions, but all sort of things came out. Said next negotiations will be in private, so pretty much admitting they are at the table or will be going.

What is it that we think the city [wrongfully?] disclosed? What are the nuggets of information that would have irked CSEC?

I understand some level of discretion needs to be involved in negotiations, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that some level of public info is reasonable when $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx of public money is involved...

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Finally caught up on my favourite thread after being away for a while. Interested if anyone can shed some more light on what's been reported from STH events:





What is it that we think the city [wrongfully?] disclosed? What are the nuggets of information that would have irked CSEC?

I understand some level of discretion needs to be involved in negotiations, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that some level of public info is reasonable when $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx of public money is involved...

During negotiations you can't do that, because then you're effectively negotiating with the entire population of the city, and that will never ever get anything done. That's why we elect officials to negotiate on our behalf.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

During negotiations you can't do that, because then you're effectively negotiating with the entire population of the city, and that will never ever get anything done. That's why we elect officials to negotiate on our behalf.

There is some level of public info throughout any process related to almost anything that any government is involved in. Exactly how much we get to know is always the question.

If I had to guess, I'd think it might be related to all of the items monkeyman mentioned a few posts ago?

you could argue it's CSEC 100% City <0% with all the extra asks the Flames had, free transit, free police security, city to pay insurance, city to pay provincial property tax... whatever other absurd demands the Flames had.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1009191746264236037

https://twitter.com/user/status/1009192017447018496

[sureLoss]

Full letter:

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Full letter:

Seems like a reasonable response.

[getbak]

Pretty much exactly what he said at the STH info session a couple of weeks ago (and given the date on the letter, it was written the same day as the first STH sessions).

[underGRADFlame]

Can't say I disagree with King's letter. Rightly or wrongly the CSEC came out looking like the villain's, keep the negotiations in the boardroom where they belong. When it gets out in the media, ego's (Both Nenshi and King) in the way of progress.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

There is some level of public info throughout any process related to almost anything that any government is involved in. Exactly how much we get to know is always the question.

If I had to guess, I'd think it might be related to all of the items monkeyman mentioned a few posts ago?

That is the thing that annoyed me when a bunch of that stuff came out about asks. There really wasn't any context to it. For example the free transit ask could have been extending the free fare zone to Vic park on games days to utilize downtown parking garages, the free police could have been we pay for x amount and the city pay for x amount etc etc.

Essentially just tidbits from a back and forth and it really brought out the pitchforks and torches.

[Rhettzky]

So he sends a letter asking for no negotiations in public and the letter goes.... public?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

Can't say I disagree with King's letter.

I can...

It's our money, I think King is angling to make some backroom deal that will be foisted on the citizenry as a fait accompli.

For example the free transit ask could have been extending the free fare zone to Vic park on games days to utilize downtown parking garages, the free police could have been we pay for x amount and the city pay for x amount etc etc.

What difference does that make? It's still them asking the city to subsidize their customers transportation costs and subsidizing their security costs. Why should they get breaks on either of those?