New Look Flames - Thoughts on the roster ahead of camp

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Big question mark for meis Tkachuk.

The bigger question mark for me is how many question marks Ricardo can squeeze into a post without answering any of his own questions.

[Sylvanfan]

Another factor is that Daryl Sutter's teams since the lockout do tend to end up closer to the bottom of the league when it comes to goals for while consistently being at the top in goals against.

2005-06 Flames 27th out of 30 in Goals for, 1st in Goals Against
2011-12 Kings, 29th out of 30 in Goals for, 2nd in Goals Against
2013 Kings, 10th out of 30 in Goals for, 8th in Goals Against
2013-14 Kings, 26th out of 30 in Goals for, 1st in Goals Against
2014-15 Kings, 18th out of 30 in Goals for, 4th in Goals Against
2015-16 Kings, 14th out of 30 in Goals for, 3rd in Goals Against
2016-17 Kings, 25th out of 30 in Goals for, 6th in Goals Against

4 out of 7 seasons the team was bottom 6 in goals for, but always finishing top 8 in goals against. Even with the 2013 season that was a short lockout season so over a full 82 games those numbers may have changed a bit.

So based on that, stylistically, I do think the Flames will be willing to trade goals for to keep the goals against down. So Blake Coleman may very well end up with 15 goals for...and the coach raves about how he was his best forward because he played a lot of minutes and gave up next to nothing.

My comments on the team being near the bottom in offence are because I expect the coach to have the group extremely focused on goal prevention to a level that this core has never dealt with, and he's got some other veterans who have.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

If most of that goes right, I think they are solidly 2nd in the division, pushing Vegas for first.

I rank Vegas and Edmonton ahead. And then a big mess.
Vegas' window though is going to start to shrink. It is an aging roster with not much in the pipeline
Edmonton has an advantage on a daily night with having the best offensive player on the planet who is producing at an unreal rate. So they start every game with that edge. You can win a lot with that.

Though I think there are massive questions on their blueline.

But the Flames are part of a HUGE group if middling teams that need things to break for them to have good years. They are not unique in that regard. Do I wish they took a more patient approach to a proper rebuild such that they build a sustainable competitors? Yes I do.

But they didn't. But looking at the team as it is constructed I don't see them being much different than probably 3/4s of the league.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nurse and Barrie and Hughes and Meyers are dumpster fires?? and Hanifin and Tanev are not dumpster fires?

You do know that just a year ago Tanev would have been considered the #4 d-man on the Canucks behind Elder, Hughes and Myers?


What would the Flames have to give Vancouver to get back Hughes? Would you be at all happy if somehow the Flames got a clone of Hughes to play for them?

I would suggest that Zaradov would not be considered at at as good as OEL or Keith by most unbiased analysts. There might be a reason that the Flames did not have to give any assets replace Gio with Zadarov/Gudbrandson

When you start pushing Valimaki and Andersson as top-4 d-men then based on the most recent years performance then the Flames are hoping for a small manageable dumpster fire.

Lmao, Hanifin and Tanev were one of the top performing pairings in the league at defending last season.

Yes, Tanev was, but turns out he's pretty damn solid and he elevated when he came here. So what does his past reputation even matter?

Your post sounds so butthurt its hilarious.

[Insert garbage] is garbage?!? [Insert solid pairing] isn't garbage?!?!

What! Huh!

So funny that this is news to you. Have you watched the handful of guys you mentioned?

Yes, OEL is subpar and terrible when considered he makes 9M, and Keith is considered to be, at this point, one of the worst defensive d-men in the game. And both will be getting top four ice time and responsibilities on there respective teams.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

This is a list of the other Pacific Teams depth chart of the top-6 plus their top pairing defense from Cap Friendly. There are some "mistakes" or arguments as they have Dube ahead of Mangiapane on the Flames and I can only assume that other teams 5/6 and 2/3 dmen might be different.

Here is a little exercise. Put on rose colored glasses and imagine that these top 8 were traded to the Flames and you were hoping for the best version of them to show up this year.

Now try to see where the current top-8 on the Flames is that much better than the 8 for 8 swap.

Vancouver
LW Miller, J.T.
C Pettersson, Elias
RW Boeser, Brock
LW Pearson, Tanner
C Horvat, Bo
RW Garland, Conor
LD Hughes, Quinn
RD Myers, Tyler

Edmonton
LW Hyman, Zach
C McDavid, Connor
RW Puljujärvi, Jesse
LW Nugent-Hopkins, Ryan
C Draisaitl, Leon
RW Yamamoto, Kailer
LD Nurse, Darnell
RD Barrie, Tyson

Vegas
LW Pacioretty, Max
C Stephenson, Chandler
RW Stone, Mark
LW Marchessault, Jonathan
C Karlsson, William
RW Smith, Reilly
LD Martinez, Alec
RD Pietrangelo, Alex

Los Angeles
LW Iafallo, Alex
C Kopitar, Anze
RW Brown, Dustin
LW Kempe, Adrian
C Danault, Phillip
RW Arvidsson, Viktor
LD Anderson, Michael
RD Doughty, Drew

Seattle
LW Schwartz, Jaden
C Wennberg, Alexander
RW Eberle, Jordan
LW McCann, Jared
C Järnkrok, Calle
RW Donskoi, Joonas
LD Giordano, Mark
RD Larsson, Adam

Anahiem
LW Lundeström, Isac
C Getzlaf, Ryan
RW Rakell, Rickard
LW Comtois, Maxime
C Zegras, Trevor
RW Terry, Troy
LD Lindholm, Hampus
RD Shattenkirk, Kevin

San Jose
LW Meier, Timo
C Couture, Logan
RW Labanc, Kevin
LW Barabanov, Alexander
C Hertl, Tomas
RW Kane, Evander
LD Ferraro, Mario
RD Burns, Brent

Calgary
LW Gaudreau, Johnny
C Lindholm, Elias
RW Tkachuk, Matthew
LW Coleman, Blake
C Monahan, Sean
RW Dubé, Dillon
LD Hanifin, Noah
RD Tanev, Christopher

Oddly enough this may have had the opposite effect as to what you were aiming for on me.

There's a lot of average in this division.

You have to give Edmonton some credit for the star power at the top, and Vegas for having some high end pieces, but a lot of question marks on a lot of rosters.

The Flames group looks a little lighter at the top, but a little more established at the bottom.

Thanks buddy!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I rank Vegas and Edmonton ahead. And then a big mess.
Vegas' window though is going to start to shrink. It is an aging roster with not much in the pipeline
Edmonton has an advantage on a daily night with having the best offensive player on the planet who is producing at an unreal rate. So they start every game with that edge. You can win a lot with that.

Though I think there are massive questions on their blueline.

But the Flames are part of a HUGE group if middling teams that need things to break for them to have good years. They are not unique in that regard. Do I wish they took a more patient approach to a proper rebuild such that they build a sustainable competitors? Yes I do.

But they didn't. But looking at the team as it is constructed I don't see them being much different than probably 3/4s of the league.

Yeah the NHL salary cap and parity really makes things congested in the middle. A lot of year to year fluctuations honestly has to do with getting some puck luck and timely saves.

I'd say there are two teams that are the class of the league when it comes to the high end talent on their roster: Tampa Bay & Colorado.

Then you have a group of teams that based on recent history should be playoff locks: Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Vegas, New York Islanders. (And IMO a couple of these teams are due for a set back due to age/losing key pieces, Islanders get included here because of playoff success)

Then I think you have a really soft middle where things could go either way:

Carolina, St.Louis, Florida, Edmonton, Minnesota, Philly, Winnipeg, Nashville, Dallas, Calgary, Montreal, Columbus, Vancouver, New York Rangers

And then I think you have a group of teams that are likely to be bad:

Chicago, Arizona, Ottawa, New Jersey, LA, San Jose, Anaheim, Buffalo, Detroit.

But really in the Western Conference what teams outside of Colorado and Vegas are likely playoff locks? A lot of question marks in the Western Conference IMO.

[EVERLAST]

As described by Stefon on SNL......The Calgary Flames are the hottest team in the league......this team has it all.

Dumpster Fires ....so many fires its hot.

Dead horses .....beat them, beat them hard they might not be dead yet.

Suicide booths ....come on in there's lots of room.

Darryl Sutter ....he's got the to God honest truth and to be quite honest you'll want to hear it.

Johnny Gaudreau.....he's not small ....he's fun size and look at that Edgework.

Eric Francis rants .....keep em coming Eric .....oh my people love your shtick.

And lastly .....Heroin Beer.....drink 3 4 5 and maybe you'll fight a fellow fan or 2 ....maybe three depending upon your tolerance .


All this and how can you NOT watch this kind of entertainment especially when confirmation bias is continually used to grade, judge, criticize and complain.

Are you NOT entertained?!?!?!

This is the team to follow....now you know .

Go Flames Go.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Obviously, these are stats from one season (2020-2021) and it was a weird year too, but hopefully it is of some use.

Gaudreau (0.88ppg) - Lindholm (0.84) - Tkachuk (0.77) - 0.83 avg
Mangiapane (0.57) - Monahan (0.56) - Coleman (0.56) - 0.56
Lucic (0.41) - Backlund (0.59) - Dube (0.43) - 0.48
Pitlick (0.29) - Richardson (0.24) - Lewis (0.18) - 0.24
12 F average 0.53 ppg

Colorado F Depth Chart
Landeskog (0.96ppg) - Mackinnon (1.35) - Rantanen (1.2) - 1.17
Compher (0.38) - Kadri (0.57) - Burakovsky (0.83) - 0.59
Newhook (0.5 rookie) - Jost (0.31) - Nichushkin (0.38) - 0.40
Maltsev (0.27) - Helm (0.17) - O'Connor (0.28) - 0.24
12 F average 0.60ppg

Vegas F Depth Chart
Pacioretty (1.06) - Stephenson (0.69) - Stone (1.11) - 0.95
Marchessault (0.80) - Karlsson (0.70) - Smith (0.47) - 0.66
Janmark (0.33) - Patrick (0.38) - Tuch (0.60) - 0.44
Carrier (0.29) - Roy (0.30) - Dadonov (0.36) - 0.32
12 F average 0.59ppg

Vancouver F Depth Chart
Miller (0.88) - Petterson (0.81) - Boeser (0.88) - 0.86
Hoglander (0.48) - Horvat (0.70) - Garland(0.80) - 0.63
Pearson (0.35) - Dickinson (0.29) - Podkolzin (est. 0.5) - 0.38
Motte (0.38) - Sutter (0.28) - Highmore(0.19) 0.28
12F average 0.55ppg

Los Angeles F Depth Chart
Iafallo (0.55) - Kopitar (0.89) - Brown (0.63) - 0.69
Kempe (0.52) - Danault (0.45) - Vilardi (0.43) - 0.47
Moore (0.41) - Byfield (0.5 est) - Grundstrom (0.24) - 0.23
Anderson-Dolan (0.32) - Lizotte (0.24) - Wagner (0.18) - .25
12F average 0.41ppg

Rankings
Overall F scoring avg:
1. Avs 0.60
2. Knights 0.59
3. Canucks 0.55
4. Flames 0.53
5. Kings 0.41

Top line ppg avg:
1. Avs 1.17
2. Knights 0.95
3. Canucks 0.86
4. Flames 0.83
5. Kings 0.69

Top 6 ppg avg:
1. Avs 0.88
2. Knights 0.81
3. Canucks 0.75
4. Flames 0.70
5. Kings 0.58

3rd line:
1. Flames 0.48
2. Knights 0.44
3. Avs 0.40
4. Canucks 0.38
5. Kings 0.23

This exercise was pretty disheartening to be honest.

I don't know if the one single pandemic shortened season is going to tell us much, especially when we all know a number of the Flames had significant down years on the scoresheet.

[TheIronMaiden]

Funny that all of those Van rosters include Pettersson and Hughes. When it looks like neither player will be under contract heading into training camp.

[MillerTime GFG]

At the end of the day, our two "best" players on the team in Monahan and JG are the least Sutter-like players on the team, and that is a problem.

I think we're in for a rough year yet again.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I look at those lists and I don't think the Flames stack up too poorly.

VAN and EDM have some good forwards, but horrible D and no depth.

VGS has great D and solid depth on forward, but no stars, other than Stone.

None of the other teams compare.

The Flames have 7 or 8 solid forwards, with some pretty pretty good names at the top. Are they the Tampa Bay Lightning? No. But do they stack up against any of the other teams in the Pacific - I certainly think so.

Vegas is the top team, looking at the 8 players and their depth

Oilers are likely the next team, while they have suspect defense. They are likely going to score a high amount of goals.

Next their is a bunch included in my view (Canucks, Flames, Seattle....)

Ducks and Kings are in full rebuild mode.

Kings have probably the best prospect depth in the league

Relook at the lists in 2 to 3 years would be interesting

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

At the end of the day, our two "best" players on the team in Monahan and JG are the least Sutter-like players on the team, and that is a problem.

I think we're in for a rough year yet again.

Two best players?

I think Lindholm and Tkachuk, potentially even Mangiapane and Backlund could say they've been better than Monahan in the last few seasons.

But Sutter was quite pleased with Monahan from the quotes we saw around his injury. I'm hoping even if he doesn't get back to that 30 goal guy, maybe Sutter can make him better in his own zone.

Gaudreau and Sutter had their thing early on, but the little guy was productive as hell down the stretch suggesting that quieted down.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

At the end of the day, our two "best" players on the team in Monahan and JG are the least Sutter-like players on the team, and that is a problem.

I think we're in for a rough year yet again.

You might be the only person who is including Monahan as one of the two best players on the team.

Gaudreau was playing great in the system after a rocky start, I'm not too worried about him tbh. More worried about Tkachuk playing at the pace demanded.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I hope we see Hanifin on PP1, and Andersson on PP2.

Tkachuk - Monahan - Gaudreau
Hanifin - Lindholm

Hanifin are Markstrom are two huge keys to the team for me this year. Can they both completely own their roles on the team? Markstrom needs to be a top-5 goalie, and Hanifin needs to take the reins as the #1 defenceman on the team.

I agree. Hanifin is definitely the #1dman.

But that doesn’t necessarily mean he has to be the PP QB.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Two best players?

I think Lindholm and Tkachuk, potentially even Mangiapane and Backlund could say they've been better than Monahan in the last few seasons.

But Sutter was quite pleased with Monahan from the quotes we saw around his injury. I'm hoping even if he doesn't get back to that 30 goal guy, maybe Sutter can make him better in his own zone.

Gaudreau and Sutter had their thing early on, but the little guy was productive as hell down the stretch suggesting that quieted down.

You might be the only person who is including Monahan as one of the two best players on the team.

Gaudreau was playing great in the system after a rocky start, I'm not too worried about him tbh. More worried about Tkachuk playing at the pace demanded.

(Don't know how to double quote).

That's why I used quotation marks around the word "best". For this team to be a good team, I think those two players need to be our two best, or at least top 4. I definitely do NOT think Monny is one of our two best on the team. JG maybe.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I agree. Hanifin is definitely the #1dman.

But that doesn’t necessarily mean he has to be the PP QB.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yea I agree.

Hanifin has made some good strides but he is not offensively dynamic in any way.

I would like to see Andersson on unit #1 and Valimaki on #2.

I know it won’t happen cause Sutter is Sutter but that’s what I want to see and think is in the best interests of the team and Valimaki’s progression.

He sees the ice better than any other dman we have on the big club. Some of the passes he made last year required high end offensive instincts.

[Bleeding Red]

Not sure if it's been posted - also not sure it matters, but - Sportsnet's per-season rankings has the Flames at 26.

[Heavy Jack]

Ricardodw’s list is hilarious because you can clearly see the undertone of his post and how it’s clearly trying desperately to be disparaging towards Calgary but it actually paints a picture that shows the Flames have a chance to be quite competitive in what’s once again shaping up to be a terrible division.

Sutter factor is huge this year especially with the way the roster is shaping up. Calgary could be a mega pain in the butt for so many teams this year if Sutter gets them to buy in early.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

At the end of the day, our two "best" players on the team in Monahan and JG are the least Sutter-like players on the team, and that is a problem.

I think we're in for a rough year yet again.

Sutter the GM traded for Kristian Huselius

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sutter the GM traded for Kristian Huselius

Seems to be some perception that Sutter was always looking for size and grit vs. talent and skill. He acquired guys like Huselius, Tanguay and Jokinen, signed UFA's like JayBo and Amonte.