Its my confirmation bias but not yours? Interesting
By the way, Wimbledon said "kids" not "his kids".
My gut says this woman was shot needlessly. That's my confirmation bias. But the logical side of my brain says wait for the facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988
I said I'm curious to find out why. Again, your confirmation bias. What are you missing? Reading through posts apparently.
Your posts are confusing. If you ask the question why someone needs to be shot 5 times, this is same question as why did that person needed to be shot once, or 20 times. The reason is the same.
Personally I think if the cop had access to a taser none of this would have happened (I could have missed something, but I believe he only had a gun).
That gets into what if territory. What if the cops didn't show up maybe she would have calmed down and nothing happened. Maybe she would have hurt someone else. Maybe the cop could have tasered her no harm done. Maybe he misses and she stabs him. Maybe she stabs him and he shoots her. Maybe the cop got trigger happy and shot for little or no reason.
Most likely IMO. Cops show up she brandishes a knife in a threatening manner (open to interpretation) gets shot.
edit - I wanted to add that police far too often appear to show no regard for human life. I can only speculate as to why but I've seen it so many times. People are clearly in distress but the officer doesn't care they are content to keep the person in that position when CLEARLY they are in severe distress, even dying. There is something very wrong going on here. Probably should post this in that other thread but...
Last edited by zamler; 06-05-2020 at 06:49 PM.
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I think the point that some people are trying to make which is not really being heard is that yes, in Canada (or the US) with the current state of policing, running at a cop with a knife will get you shot. That’s pretty much a fact. The problem is that fact, because that is not the case in other countries (like the U.K.) and it doesn’t NEED to be the case here.
People act like it’s the only option because cops here are trained for that to be THE option. It shouldn’t. It shouldn’t even be in the deck of cards. That’s the point.
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I think the point that some people are trying to make which is not really being heard is that yes, in Canada (or the US) with the current state of policing, running at a cop with a knife will get you shot. That’s pretty much a fact. The problem is that fact, because that is not the case in other countries (like the U.K.) and it doesn’t NEED to be the case here.
People act like it’s the only option because cops here are trained for that to be THE option. It shouldn’t. It shouldn’t even be in the deck of cards. That’s the point.
I'm out of thanks, so "thanks".
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And to add something of substance to the thread...
The other day I listened to a podcast called "Behind the Bastards". The specific episode was titled "The Man Who Teaches Our Cops to Kill" and was about David Grossman, director of the dubiously-named "Killology Research Group", a pseudoscience-peddling organization which trains police officers to overcome their psychological inhibition of firing on another human being. Grossman's company has provided training to over 100 different police departments in the United States.
Near the end of the podcast, one of the hosts, a US Army veteran, shared an anecdote from his time in Iraq. He was in Mosul on the the very edge of ISIS-controlled territory, working alongside Iraqi soldiers and police. His Iraqi allies were all kids of 18 or 19 years with limited training. Each of the Iraqis, without exception, had recently experienced the deaths of one or more of their comrades at the hands of ISIS suicide bombers.
As word spread among the civilians trapped in ISIS territory that liberating forces were nearby, waves of refugees fled toward their position. The refugees, running for their very lives, were carrying as much of their worldly possessions as they could bring with them. The soldiers were terrified that there were ISIS suicide bombers hidden among the civilians. As the refugees reached the lines, the soldiers did what they felt was logical and stopped them to search their bags for explosives. The civilians often reacted poorly to this. Many were suffering from PTSD after their treatment at the hands of ISIS and instinctively recoiled and yanked back their bags, behaviour that is indistinguishable from the reaction of a suicide bomber about to detonate an IED. The podcast host remarked that at no point did he see any of his Iraqi allies, all poorly-trained teenagers, ever point a weapon or fire on a civilian.
He then wondered if officers from any American police force would have been equally disciplined in that situation. I wondered if Canadian police would fare equally well. I suspect if we swapped those teenage Iraqi recruits with well-trained American/Canadian police officers, you're looking at multiple dead civilians.
It doesn't have to be that way.
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I think the point that some people are trying to make which is not really being heard is that yes, in Canada (or the US) with the current state of policing, running at a cop with a knife will get you shot. That’s pretty much a fact. The problem is that fact, because that is not the case in other countries (like the U.K.) and it doesn’t NEED to be the case here.
People act like it’s the only option because cops here are trained for that to be THE option. It shouldn’t. It shouldn’t even be in the deck of cards. That’s the point.
Sometimes Deadly force is the only option and you're saying it shouldn't even be an option? Let's leave the split second use of force decisions up to the officers.
Sometimes Deadly force is the only option and you're saying it shouldn't even be an option? Let's leave the split second use of force decisions up to the officers.
Sometimes Deadly force is the only option and you're saying it shouldn't even be an option? Let's leave the split second use of force decisions up to the officers.
To often deadly force becomes the only option due to the actions of the police prior to the use of lethal force.
There are simple actions like Banning the use of chokeholds and stranglehold’s or having a documented use of force policy or having a policy of deescalation that will reduce the frequency where an officer is forced to make a split second decision.
Just because in the end many officer involved shootings are deemed legal doesn’t mean they are necessary.
I wonder why that is. Who knows impossible to figure it out.
Makes you wonder how anyone dies by stabbing. All they ever have to do is run away. As for your kids threatening you with a knife, WTF. edit - glad I misread that was concerned for a bit.
My foster kids, kids I have worked with in Jail, group homes, rehabs, etc etc, by my guess I have been threatened by knife wielding kids or adults about 20 to 30 times over my life, not one of them ever actually wanted to stab me, they were all distraught and I just kept my distance and talked to them until the police arrived, at times that was quick, sometimes it took quite a while, I have had one occasion the cops refused to attend, was told 'its your problem, call us if he stabs someone' that was a long night.
As to why people die by stabbing, they die because they cant or wont run away, wives, girlfriends etc mostly.
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To often deadly force becomes the only option due to the actions of the police prior to the use of lethal force.
There are simple actions like Banning the use of chokeholds and stranglehold’s or having a documented use of force policy or having a policy of deescalation that will reduce the frequency where an officer is forced to make a split second decision.
Just because in the end many officer involved shootings are deemed legal doesn’t mean they are necessary.
You're saying the police are the ones escalating things? that's not usually how it goes, de-escalating is always the 1st and preferred option.
You're saying the police are the ones escalating things? that's not usually how it goes, de-escalating is always the 1st and preferred option.
Not even close to my experience, some cops deescalate but most view the excitement of a hard take down as one of the few pay offs of a fairly crappy job.
My foster kids, kids I have worked with in Jail, group homes, rehabs, etc etc, by my guess I have been threatened by knife wielding kids or adults about 20 to 30 times over my life, not one of them ever actually wanted to stab me, they were all distraught and I just kept my distance and talked to them until the police arrived, at times that was quick, sometimes it took quite a while, I have had one occasion the cops refused to attend, was told 'its your problem, call us if he stabs someone' that was a long night.
As to why people die by stabbing, they die because they cant or wont run away, wives, girlfriends etc mostly.
The person with the knife can stab you before you even turn around to run away, knives are deadly
They certainly have an extreme view of their end goal but if you look at the 8 policies they want immediately recommended and the data behind it you can save officers lives and the public’s lives through better policing.
The person with the knife can stab you before you even turn around to run away, knives are deadly
not to the police they are not, statistically, mostly because the police don't get close enough to be stabbed.
My experience is almost all people with knives are more interested in hurting themselves than anyone else
Not even close to my experience, some cops deescalate but most view the excitement of a hard take down as one of the few pay offs of a fairly crappy job.
not to the police they are not, statistically, mostly because the police don't get close enough to be stabbed.
My experience is almost all people with knives are more interested in hurting themselves than anyone else
Police are trained and they know how deadly a knife can be.
