[Rumour] Capitals moving to North Virginia

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I always wonder why anyone who hates the rich and capitalism so much watches professional sports.
I understand the frustration and concerns with modern wealth inequality, but why support pro sports as a consumer when it's an area that's getting so out of hand?
Do you buy Louis Vuitton and complain about the profits LVMH are making?

Stop feeding these businesses with your support if it's something that important to you.

It’s a great point and you’re absolutely correct. It’s also what makes this even more disgusting in my view, leveraging the public’s civic pride to benefit a rich man and make them even more obscenely rich is in fact, pure greed and disgusting. The type of thing our society needs to shed itself and fast- you are 100% correct.

So I have been actively trying to care less and disengage and to some extent succeeding this year. I think for me watching the Flames is a bit habit, it’s on in the background, I shut off games. I haven’t watched one full game this year and the one I was invited to was for work and I spent the whole time chatting for business purposes. I told the dude who invited me that next time we should just hit a pub.

#### the owners who do this, it’s revolting greed in a society that’s already incredibly sick with it.

If you need public handouts for your business because your player expenses require it, you’re a ####ty business person and absolutely NOT a capitalist. You’re a grifting parasite that should get taxed into oblivion. Murray Edwards should be forced to sell off his ownership stake in any Canadian company unless he moves back and pays taxes. This Leonsis clown, a building that’s 26 years old and he wants to skyrocket the equity value of the franchise and sell? Pay for it on your own. Why should Ovechkin get $9mm per year if you should be saving $10mm per year to pay for your new stupid arenas? The. Model. Is. Broken. And it sure as #### isn’t “business”. It’s parasite greed disgustingness. These people are cockroaches. And you’re right, we should all quit on them.

[N-E-B]

FWIW, the proposed site is only 5KM away from their current location, less than 15 minutes away.

I don’t really care what happens as I have no skin in the game, the only thing I would add is that their current jerseys and logo are an abomination and they should bring back the eagle jersey from the early 2000’s.

[getbak]

This story says it will be a $2 billion US, 12 acre development: https://www.fieldofschemes.com/2023/...-counteroffer/

If my math is correct, the site where the new arena in Calgary will be is a little less than 12 acres. So, I guess we're getting a deal with our arena project coming in around $1.2 billion Canadian.

[nfotiu]

It's interesting. My initial reflex was to be against this. But on further reading, there may not be any direct cost to the State.
https://richmond.com/news/state-regi...3f17feab5.html

Leonsis would continue to run the Cap one arena as a concert and event space and contribute significantly to this space as well as move his business to VA.

Some of the reasons these things are bad deals in other cities are a little different here. With the Washington metro area being split into 4 states, the dynamic is much different. Currently fans from MD,DC,VA,WV all go into DC to spend their money. There is an economic advantage to getting all of them to spend their money in VA instead. That's a different dynamic than say Calgary where a hockey team is cannibalizing entertainment dollars that would have otherwise been spent elsewhere in Calgary, so not much net gain.

There isn't much of a civic pride angle either, as they aren't going to be the Virginia or Alexandria Capitals. It is a loss for DC, and that's too bad, but seems like a good deal for VA.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

It's interesting. My initial reflex was to be against this. But on further reading, there may not be any direct cost to the State.
https://richmond.com/news/state-regi...3f17feab5.html

Leonsis would continue to run the Cap one arena as a concert and event space and contribute significantly to this space as well as move his business to VA.

Some of the reasons these things are bad deals in other cities are a little different here. With the Washington metro area being split into 4 states, the dynamic is much different. Currently fans from MD,DC,VA,WV all go into DC to spend their money. There is an economic advantage to getting all of them to spend their money in VA instead. That's a different dynamic than say Calgary where a hockey team is cannibalizing entertainment dollars that would have otherwise been spent elsewhere in Calgary, so not much net gain.

There isn't much of a civic pride angle either, as they aren't going to be the Virginia or Alexandria Capitals. It is a loss for DC, and that's too bad, but seems like a good deal for VA.

Is there every that much civic pride in a nation's capital? Where folks come from all over the country to work? Isn't that historically part of the issue in Ottawa?

(although it could work to their advantage, I've been in Edmonton since 2009 and will never cheer for local team because E=NG, but if I live in Ottawa that long I'm sure I'd be fien with a B tier fandom)

[PeteMoss]

Washington professional sports teams are located in the best spot in North America to leverage public funds. They can get DC, Maryland and Virginia to all fight over them and still be close to the population base. Just wait for the football team when they leverage them all of get their new stadium.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Washington professional sports teams are located in the best spot in North America to leverage public funds. They can get DC, Maryland and Virginia to all fight over them and still be close to the population base. Just wait for the football team when they leverage them all of get their new stadium.

They already are!

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/s...rship/3394067/

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It’s a great point and you’re absolutely correct. It’s also what makes this even more disgusting in my view, leveraging the public’s civic pride to benefit a rich man and make them even more obscenely rich is in fact, pure greed and disgusting. The type of thing our society needs to shed itself and fast- you are 100% correct.

So I have been actively trying to care less and disengage and to some extent succeeding this year. I think for me watching the Flames is a bit habit, it’s on in the background, I shut off games. I haven’t watched one full game this year and the one I was invited to was for work and I spent the whole time chatting for business purposes. I told the dude who invited me that next time we should just hit a pub.

#### the owners who do this, it’s revolting greed in a society that’s already incredibly sick with it.

If you need public handouts for your business because your player expenses require it, you’re a ####ty business person and absolutely NOT a capitalist. You’re a grifting parasite that should get taxed into oblivion. Murray Edwards should be forced to sell off his ownership stake in any Canadian company unless he moves back and pays taxes. This Leonsis clown, a building that’s 26 years old and he wants to skyrocket the equity value of the franchise and sell? Pay for it on your own. Why should Ovechkin get $9mm per year if you should be saving $10mm per year to pay for your new stupid arenas? The. Model. Is. Broken. And it sure as #### isn’t “business”. It’s parasite greed disgustingness. These people are cockroaches. And you’re right, we should all quit on them.

It’s also bizarre to frame it as hating the rich and capitalism.

This isn’t capitalism. It’s corporate welfare. That’s the opposite of capitalism.

And sure I hate ####ty billionaires. That’s pretty different than hating rich people. What even is a rich person by these standards?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

So you would just say “well I should just pay 1/4 of my net worth so taxpayers don’t have too…”

Leonsis is worth $2.4B, the amount of money being talked about is literally 25% of his net worth.

You're right, an investment of that size would be a significant portion of his wealth that he is putting at risk. Is it the taxpayer's responsibility to lessen his risk?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I always wonder why anyone who hates the rich and capitalism so much watches professional sports.
I understand the frustration and concerns with modern wealth inequality, but why support pro sports as a consumer when it's an area that's getting so out of hand?
Do you buy Louis Vuitton and complain about the profits LVMH are making?

Stop feeding these businesses with your support if it's something that important to you.

I support capitalism but that's not what this is. This is corporate welfare. Should taxpayers pay for LVMH's manufacturing, retail and office facilities? The individual customer's support or lack of it for a company should be determined by whether they purchase their product/service or not. That's capitalism.

ETA: Looks like Cecil got there before me.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I support capitalism but that's not what this is. This is corporate welfare. Should taxpayers pay for LVMH's manufacturing, retail and office facilities? The individual customer's support or lack of it for a company should be determined by whether they purchase their product/service or not. That's capitalism.

ETA: Looks like Cecil got there before me.

I agree with you in principle but this arena doesn’t look too egregious as it is not coming with any tax payer expense if it checks out. That’s actually in contrast to the Amazon hq being built across the street which did have tax payer cash going to it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This is only the beginning. ~23/32 NHL arenas are 20+ years old.

There will be a constant stream of NHL owners with their hands out, either for refurbishment or new facilities.

What the hell is wrong with us that we think a 20 year old building is worthy of throwing in the landfill!?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

What the hell is wrong with us that we think a 20 year old building is worthy of throwing in the landfill!?

Money

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by getbak

This story says it will be a $2 billion US, 12 acre development: https://www.fieldofschemes.com/2023/...-counteroffer/

If my math is correct, the site where the new arena in Calgary will be is a little less than 12 acres. So, I guess we're getting a deal with our arena project coming in around $1.2 billion Canadian.

Calgary's is around 10 acres.

[Playfair]

Is this basically them backing down in DC? Or am I missing something.

Originally Posted by sureLoss

DC mayor just announced legislation that would kick $500 million over 3 years into renovations for Capital One arena.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1734744250380583371

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Playfair

Is this basically them backing down in DC? Or am I missing something.

Yup, DC is capitulating. They don't want the teams to move, so they are offering $500 million of the $600 million that Leonsis asked for in an attempt to stop the Virginia deal from happening.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Yup, DC is capitulating. They don't want the teams to move, so they are offering $500 million of the $600 million that Leonsis asked for in an attempt to stop the Virginia deal from happening.

I wonder if he'll go for it. A lot less red tape or uncertainty and they can probably start the renovations right away versus waiting five years for a new arena.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Bring on the Hampton Roads Rhinos!

[tripin_billie]

As a DC resident, I've been following this for the last few months. Some general thoughts I have on it:

- Gallery Place has gone downhill a lot since the beginning of the pandemic. I worked near there and would always go up to 7th St for lunch. That all changed with remote work and it hasn't rebounded. What has now happened is the area has been overtaken by some open air drug markets and many of the restaurants have not returned since the pandemic. Adding to that, the AMC theatre and the bowling alley both closed too. Now, when you get out of the metro, there is an overabundant stench of weed plus lots of people just loitering around. It does not leave you with an overly safe feeling. There have been shootings outside right after puck drop. Bowser and the Council are responsible for not seeing that this area needs specific policing. DC does not have loitering laws - I think it needs some neighborhood specific ones for places like Gallery Place.

- Notwithstanding all of this, Gallery Place is an inherently excellent location for an arena. It sits above 3 metro lines and has the other 2 only 3 blocks away at Metro Center. This is by far one of the best entertainment locations in the region.

- Capital One Center isn't as fancy as the new arenas, but it in no way is anything like something like the Saddledome. Concourses are wide and have good food and drink options. Site lines from seats are all really good as well and the facilities still feel modern. Sure, it's not as nice as a place like T-Mobile or even older-newer arenas like Nationwide, but it is not really lacking. What it doesn't have is an on-site training rink/ gym and more importantly, a bunch of retail that is owned by Monumental. Leonsis and JBG are eyeing the opportunity to be the landlords to all of the surrounding retail so they get a taste of all of the pre and post game revenue.

- Attendance is down. The Wizards suck and have low attendance to the point where you can easily get $10 tickets. The Caps have been hurting on weekday games. I went to the Flames game in relatively good seats that I grabbed on StubHub for $32 including fees. That was significantly below face. Subsequent games I've gone to this year felt much the same. With Ovechkin finally being caught by father time, and the probability of the record getting slimmer, I feel like the Caps are going to have a marketing crisis on their hands. Maybe they think a new arena and the rental revenue makes up for the lack of ticket sales?

- Bowser and the Council have been overly focused on getting the Commanders to return to the district in the old RFK Stadium location. That would be awesome, but they didn't pay enough attention to Leonsis and his baby-man feelings got hurt.

- DC doesn't have the revenue it had before the pandemic, so handouts from the Council are going to be harder to get. The pandemic really did a number on this city.

- General crime is up in DC while it is falling in other big US cities. There is a lot of debate as to why, but the net effect is that people seem more reluctant to come into the city for events.

- The proposed Potomac Yards location sucks. It's a freaking Target and strip mall right now. If they move the team there, it is going to feel like the most artificial suburban towncenter ever. Yuck! Also, it's a terrible metro location as it is only served by the Blue Line and the exiting the station you have to cross rail tracks to get anywhere.

- Leonsis is making weird business moves that have upset folks in DC. In particular, he sold a small percentage of Monumental Sports to the Saudi sovereign fund. In a city where we renamed the street in front of the Saudi embassy Jamal Khashoggi Way, you can imagine this business move has been looked on with less than favorable eyes.

- I still think this is all a ploy to extract more concessions out of DC and that the Caps and Wizards end up in a renovated Capital One.


Happy to answer any questions anyone has from a local perspective.

Overall, all my Caps-fan friends hate this move and are swearing off going to regular season games in the future.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Thanks for this insight. Do you think the new $500 million offer from DC will make any difference or will Leonsis want more?

Originally Posted by tripin_billie

As a DC resident, I've been following this for the last few months. Some general thoughts I have on it:

- Gallery Place has gone downhill a lot since the beginning of the pandemic. I worked near there and would always go up to 7th St for lunch. That all changed with remote work and it hasn't rebounded. What has now happened is the area has been overtaken by some open air drug markets and many of the restaurants have not returned since the pandemic. Adding to that, the AMC theatre and the bowling alley both closed too. Now, when you get out of the metro, there is an overabundant stench of weed plus lots of people just loitering around. It does not leave you with an overly safe feeling. There have been shootings outside right after puck drop. Bowser and the Council are responsible for not seeing that this area needs specific policing. DC does not have loitering laws - I think it needs some neighborhood specific ones for places like Gallery Place.

- Notwithstanding all of this, Gallery Place is an inherently excellent location for an arena. It sits above 3 metro lines and has the other 2 only 3 blocks away at Metro Center. This is by far one of the best entertainment locations in the region.

- Capital One Center isn't as fancy as the new arenas, but it in no way is anything like something like the Saddledome. Concourses are wide and have good food and drink options. Site lines from seats are all really good as well and the facilities still feel modern. Sure, it's not as nice as a place like T-Mobile or even older-newer arenas like Nationwide, but it is not really lacking. What it doesn't have is an on-site training rink/ gym and more importantly, a bunch of retail that is owned by Monumental. Leonsis and JBG are eyeing the opportunity to be the landlords to all of the surrounding retail so they get a taste of all of the pre and post game revenue.

- Attendance is down. The Wizards suck and have low attendance to the point where you can easily get $10 tickets. The Caps have been hurting on weekday games. I went to the Flames game in relatively good seats that I grabbed on StubHub for $32 including fees. That was significantly below face. Subsequent games I've gone to this year felt much the same. With Ovechkin finally being caught by father time, and the probability of the record getting slimmer, I feel like the Caps are going to have a marketing crisis on their hands. Maybe they think a new arena and the rental revenue makes up for the lack of ticket sales?

- Bowser and the Council have been overly focused on getting the Commanders to return to the district in the old RFK Stadium location. That would be awesome, but they didn't pay enough attention to Leonsis and his baby-man feelings got hurt.

- DC doesn't have the revenue it had before the pandemic, so handouts from the Council are going to be harder to get. The pandemic really did a number on this city.

- General crime is up in DC while it is falling in other big US cities. There is a lot of debate as to why, but the net effect is that people seem more reluctant to come into the city for events.

- The proposed Potomac Yards location sucks. It's a freaking Target and strip mall right now. If they move the team there, it is going to feel like the most artificial suburban towncenter ever. Yuck! Also, it's a terrible metro location as it is only served by the Blue Line and the exiting the station you have to cross rail tracks to get anywhere.

- Leonsis is making weird business moves that have upset folks in DC. In particular, he sold a small percentage of Monumental Sports to the Saudi sovereign fund. In a city where we renamed the street in front of the Saudi embassy Jamal Khashoggi Way, you can imagine this business move has been looked on with less than favorable eyes.

- I still think this is all a ploy to extract more concessions out of DC and that the Caps and Wizards end up in a renovated Capital One.


Happy to answer any questions anyone has from a local perspective.

Overall, all my Caps-fan friends hate this move and are swearing off going to regular season games in the future.