Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1587558772754767873

Interesting hypothesis. I think we'll see a lot more moderate Conservative abandoning the UCP, replaced by morons who's brains barely function. I wonder just how crazy they will go in Calgary, or if they'll recognize they need to try for a few seats.

I told my MLA he should step down before he gets associated with the crazy, but I didn't get a response this time.

I don't have faith in Calgarians. I think they're going to vote with their wallets, not with their brains. There will be enough NDP hating Calgarians who will ignore the crazy of the UCP if they think they'll get theirs, and also be happy to to stick it to the" Edmonton loving lefties".

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I don't have faith in Calgarians. I think they're going to vote with their wallets, not with their brains. There will be enough NDP hating Calgarians who will ignore the crazy of the UCP if they think they'll get theirs, and also be happy to to stick it to the" Edmonton loving lefties".

This isn't in Calgary.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

This isn't in Calgary.

I mentioned what the UCP might do in Calgary....

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Slava

This isn't in Calgary.

Fair enough. I didn't look, but the election is going to be down to Calgary and look who you voted in last time.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honestly, there is more to the healthcare discussion than just "add money" and that's part of my frustration. There's an enormous amount of bureaucracy and how healthcare is delivered that could be streamlined. I realize its a gargantuan job to try to fix, but it's pretty damn important!

I just feel like the plain addition of funds to hire more people is a band-aid and a lazy policy. I would prefer that to be in conjunction with a legitimate plan to get the system reformed. I'm an outsider, and have no idea on some of those things, but experiencing the system as a user or adjacent to users for some of this and you can see the bottlenecks and pure stupidity. Surely someone who knows about these things could pull the system apart and reconfigure it with some sanity.

What are the bottlenecks and stupidty that you see as easy fixes?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

What are the bottlenecks and stupidty that you see as easy fixes?

Well here’s one. My wife has an issue and booked a doctors appointment. They were pretty sure they knew the issue and sent her to a specialist. Makes sense. The specialist does a test, confirms the issue and says “here’s what you should do for treatment”. The catch is, now my wife has to book another time with the family doctor, to get a referral for this treatment, and then get the treatment. It’s just wasting everyone’s time. Similar things happen with prescriptions for all kinds of ongoing things. You can get some doctors to issue a renewal, but others make you go in and have an appointment.

To me, the issue here is pretty simple to change. Less of these appointments means more times available for people who are actually in need of seeing doctors.

We had another issue in the hospital this year, where we waited for a report from radiology. It took hours for the report, and I was within earshot of the nurses desk/station. A significant hold up was the nurse called radiology and the radiologist wouldn’t report to her. Instead the doctor from ER had to call and speak to the radiologist directly…to report that it was all clear! I understand that approach of there’s something complex or whatever. But those kinds of delays are just plain ridiculous. Meanwhile, a bed is taken and held up while people are sitting in the waiting room.

I’m just a layman, but there’s no way I’m the only one with these kinds of stories. There are obviously issues in the structures within AHS. I had another example but decided I don’t want to get into it on a public site.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well here’s one. My wife has an issue and booked a doctors appointment. They were pretty sure they knew the issue and sent her to a specialist. Makes sense. The specialist does a test, confirms the issue and says “here’s what you should do for treatment”. The catch is, now my wife has to book another time with the family doctor, to get a referral for this treatment, and then get the treatment. It’s just wasting everyone’s time. Similar things happen with prescriptions for all kinds of ongoing things. You can get some doctors to issue a renewal, but others make you go in and have an appointment.

To me, the issue here is pretty simple to change. Less of these appointments means more times available for people who are actually in need of seeing doctors.

We had another issue in the hospital this year, where we waited for a report from radiology. It took hours for the report, and I was within earshot of the nurses desk/station. A significant hold up was the nurse called radiology and the radiologist wouldn’t report to her. Instead the doctor from ER had to call and speak to the radiologist directly…to report that it was all clear! I understand that approach of there’s something complex or whatever. But those kinds of delays are just plain ridiculous. Meanwhile, a bed is taken and held up while people are sitting in the waiting room.

I’m just a layman, but there’s no way I’m the only one with these kinds of stories. There are obviously issues in the structures within AHS. I had another example but decided I don’t want to get into it on a public site.

Another anecdote - My wife broke a small bone in her foot a few years ago. Urgent care did an inconclusive x-ray and issued an air cast. After that, she saw her family doctor every other week for 3 months and had three more x-rays. With no apparent improvement (after 6 or 7 visits), the family Dr. finally referred her to an orthopedic surgeon. That consult lasted all of 5 minutes, when the orthopedic Dr. explained that, unless you're a professional athlete, 'they' don't do anything and the best course of action was to "take it easy, but walk gingerly on it until you can bear more and more weight"... She was fine in about 10 days... 7 family Dr visits, 3 additional x-rays and all for not.

Now it's hard to say if this is a failure of the system of just incompetence on the part of one Dr., but again, I can't believe something like this is an isolated incident where resources like this are unnecessarily wasted.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well here’s one. My wife has an issue and booked a doctors appointment. They were pretty sure they knew the issue and sent her to a specialist. Makes sense. The specialist does a test, confirms the issue and says “here’s what you should do for treatment”. The catch is, now my wife has to book another time with the family doctor, to get a referral for this treatment, and then get the treatment. It’s just wasting everyone’s time. Similar things happen with prescriptions for all kinds of ongoing things. You can get some doctors to issue a renewal, but others make you go in and have an appointment.

To me, the issue here is pretty simple to change. Less of these appointments means more times available for people who are actually in need of seeing doctors.

We had another issue in the hospital this year, where we waited for a report from radiology. It took hours for the report, and I was within earshot of the nurses desk/station. A significant hold up was the nurse called radiology and the radiologist wouldn’t report to her. Instead the doctor from ER had to call and speak to the radiologist directly…to report that it was all clear! I understand that approach of there’s something complex or whatever. But those kinds of delays are just plain ridiculous. Meanwhile, a bed is taken and held up while people are sitting in the waiting room.

I’m just a layman, but there’s no way I’m the only one with these kinds of stories. There are obviously issues in the structures within AHS. I had another example but decided I don’t want to get into it on a public site.

You definitely aren’t the only one, which is why it’s so bizarre that people just want to shrug their shoulders, call it reasonable, and say “that’s public healthcare, baby!”

It just seems wildly complex for reasons that are difficult for any casual observer to understand (and having a couple nurses as friends, they feel different). There’s just no reason for communication and care paths to by that difficult, just like there’s no reason for healthcare providers to send non-emergency patients to the emergency room to sit and wait for 10 hours instead of something as simple as booking an appointment 10 hours from then. It just fails to make sense and some people are fine with it. It’s insane.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You definitely aren’t the only one, which is why it’s so bizarre that people just want to shrug their shoulders, call it reasonable, and say “that’s public healthcare, baby!”

It just seems wildly complex for reasons that are difficult for any casual observer to understand (and having a couple nurses as friends, they feel different). There’s just no reason for communication and care paths to by that difficult, just like there’s no reason for healthcare providers to send non-emergency patients to the emergency room to sit and wait for 10 hours instead of something as simple as booking an appointment 10 hours from then. It just fails to make sense and some people are fine with it. It’s insane.

The GP referral system is the same in a public / private scenario.

[tvp2003]

Not sure if it was posted but Marilyn North Piegan no longer being allowed to run as the NDP candidate in Calgary-Klein. Apparently she posted some questionable comments on Twitter about the videos that leaked with Denis, Chandler and McLean (subsequently deleted).

I was luke-warm on her as a candidate so hopefully they can get someone else who’s better; she ran for City Council a couple of years ago but lost to Terry Wong in Ward 7.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...a5ffdc547/amp/

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I don't have faith in Calgarians. I think they're going to vote with their wallets, not with their brains. There will be enough NDP hating Calgarians who will ignore the crazy of the UCP if they think they'll get theirs, and also be happy to to stick it to the" Edmonton loving lefties".

I'm somewhat curious what policies the UPC promises that you believe will benefit a typical a Calgarian below the 98th percentiles wallet?

cutting taxes in favor of infrastructure deficits, user pay, deteriorating health and education outcomes... doesn't benefit our wallets, it's just an empty meme that is taking advantage of short term thinking.

kill the myth that right wingers are conservative or have better economic records

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by #-3

I'm somewhat curious what policies the UPC promises that you believe will benefit a typical a Calgarian below the 98th percentiles wallet?

cutting taxes in favor of infrastructure deficits, user pay, deteriorating health and education outcomes... doesn't benefit our wallets, it's just an empty meme that is taking advantage of short term thinking.

kill the myth that right wingers are conservative or have better economic records

It doesn't matter what the UCP actually does, all that matters is what the average voter believes. Facts are pretty much useless in the new era of politics

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well here’s one. My wife has an issue and booked a doctors appointment. They were pretty sure they knew the issue and sent her to a specialist. Makes sense. The specialist does a test, confirms the issue and says “here’s what you should do for treatment”. The catch is, now my wife has to book another time with the family doctor, to get a referral for this treatment, and then get the treatment. It’s just wasting everyone’s time. Similar things happen with prescriptions for all kinds of ongoing things. You can get some doctors to issue a renewal, but others make you go in and have an appointment.

To me, the issue here is pretty simple to change. Less of these appointments means more times available for people who are actually in need of seeing doctors.

We had another issue in the hospital this year, where we waited for a report from radiology. It took hours for the report, and I was within earshot of the nurses desk/station. A significant hold up was the nurse called radiology and the radiologist wouldn’t report to her. Instead the doctor from ER had to call and speak to the radiologist directly…to report that it was all clear! I understand that approach of there’s something complex or whatever. But those kinds of delays are just plain ridiculous. Meanwhile, a bed is taken and held up while people are sitting in the waiting room.

I’m just a layman, but there’s no way I’m the only one with these kinds of stories. There are obviously issues in the structures within AHS. I had another example but decided I don’t want to get into it on a public site.

I agree some of the systems seem ridiculous, but the things you're describing are done for a reason I assume. Would it be better for the specialist to refer? That takes time away from the specialist so then you run into the issue of the specialist wait times increasing. So you solve one problem but create another. I don't know how long referrals take maybe they are very quick or maybe there's a decent amount of data entry etc. Like you I'm also just a layman, I certainly don't know the ins and outs.

Your second example seems odd to me. If the radiologist won't ever report to the nurse why would she be calling? Is there a reason the radiologist wanted to speak to the doctor in this case even though it's all clear? Obviously I'm not asking you to answer that but is it a situation where radiologists never report to nurses or only report to doctors when they have questions or additional info to give.

I agree with you that there seems to be a lot of small things that could be improved but it's also often more complicated than what you or I see. HCWs need to be the ones to point out areas we can improve and I'm sure there are lots, but the people in charge need to listen and they aren't.

The biggest issue is still not enough HCWs. It's far and away the biggest issue and our government is not helping that.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I agree some of the systems seem ridiculous, but the things you're describing are done for a reason I assume. Would it be better for the specialist to refer? That takes time away from the specialist so then you run into the issue of the specialist wait times increasing. So you solve one problem but create another. I don't know how long referrals take maybe they are very quick or maybe there's a decent amount of data entry etc. Like you I'm also just a layman, I certainly don't know the ins and outs.

Your second example seems odd to me. If the radiologist won't ever report to the nurse why would she be calling? Is there a reason the radiologist wanted to speak to the doctor in this case even though it's all clear? Obviously I'm not asking you to answer that but is it a situation where radiologists never report to nurses or only report to doctors when they have questions or additional info to give.

I agree with you that there seems to be a lot of small things that could be improved but it's also often more complicated than what you or I see. HCWs need to be the ones to point out areas we can improve and I'm sure there are lots, but the people in charge need to listen and they aren't.

The biggest issue is still not enough HCWs. It's far and away the biggest issue and our government is not helping that.

The specialist doesn’t have to refer in the first case, but why have another appointment required? And overall, the thing is we hear “there’s not enough workers” and the at the same time we have these processes in place monopolizing their time.

These things are seemingly minor and meaningless, until they’re done on a large scale across the system and bog the whole thing down.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by calf

What I find interesting is there are a number of large companies entering the renewables and clean fuels space, making huge investments. Suncor, Enbridge, TC, etc. The UCP is making policies that would actively make those projects harder to get through, or make them less economic. A lot of the same things that they complain about Trudeau doing for Oil and Gas. It boggles my mind.

Suncor just sold their wind projects and reinvested the money buying Teck's share of the Fort Hills oilsands mine. But I think the primary reason is that there is a huge valuation difference in the market between "green" assets and "dirty" assets. So if you trade at an O&G valuation it's rational to sell green assets and buy o&G assets.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well here’s one. My wife has an issue and booked a doctors appointment. They were pretty sure they knew the issue and sent her to a specialist. Makes sense. The specialist does a test, confirms the issue and says “here’s what you should do for treatment”. The catch is, now my wife has to book another time with the family doctor, to get a referral for this treatment, and then get the treatment. It’s just wasting everyone’s time. Similar things happen with prescriptions for all kinds of ongoing things. You can get some doctors to issue a renewal, but others make you go in and have an appointment.

To me, the issue here is pretty simple to change. Less of these appointments means more times available for people who are actually in need of seeing doctors.

We had another issue in the hospital this year, where we waited for a report from radiology. It took hours for the report, and I was within earshot of the nurses desk/station. A significant hold up was the nurse called radiology and the radiologist wouldn’t report to her. Instead the doctor from ER had to call and speak to the radiologist directly…to report that it was all clear! I understand that approach of there’s something complex or whatever. But those kinds of delays are just plain ridiculous. Meanwhile, a bed is taken and held up while people are sitting in the waiting room.

I’m just a layman, but there’s no way I’m the only one with these kinds of stories. There are obviously issues in the structures within AHS. I had another example but decided I don’t want to get into it on a public site.

Something seems weird here. I had a major problem with my foot a few years ago, and yes, my GP did refer me to a specialist. BUT once the specialist diagnosed the problem and suggested treatment, the rest was booked through them. All reports of treatment and progress were of course sent to my GP but I never had to book treatment through my GP.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by redforever

Something seems weird here. I had a major problem with my foot a few years ago, and yes, my GP did refer me to a specialist. BUT once the specialist diagnosed the problem and suggested treatment, the rest was booked through them. All reports of treatment and progress were of course sent to my GP but I never had to book treatment through my GP.

Yeah, no idea why it wouldn’t be done that way, but here we are.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

The specialist doesn’t have to refer in the first case, but why have another appointment required? And overall, the thing is we hear “there’s not enough workers” and the at the same time we have these processes in place monopolizing their time.

These things are seemingly minor and meaningless, until they’re done on a large scale across the system and bog the whole thing down.

The appointment thing is a side affect of fee for service billing. If you note BC appears to be getting rid of it. But there are pros and cons to it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

The appointment thing is a side affect of fee for service billing. If you note BC appears to be getting rid of it. But there are pros and cons to it.

Ya, my doctor's office gets paid per patient, not per visit so they don't make me come in for meaningless appointments. Most of it is dealt through the nurse. It's a way better system for everyone, they've been doing it like this for at least 10 years, and I have no idea why it hasn't been adopted by more offices.

[calf]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Suncor just sold their wind projects and reinvested the money buying Teck's share of the Fort Hills oilsands mine. But I think the primary reason is that there is a huge valuation difference in the market between "green" assets and "dirty" assets. So if you trade at an O&G valuation it's rational to sell green assets and buy o&G assets.

In Suncor's case, I was referring more to their moves into hydrogen/renewable fuels.