What “save the season” trade would you like?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I wonder this to i'm looking at a tank and quick re-tool but the track record of this scouting staff makes me wonder if we wouldn't end up with more Poirier's, Klimchuck's, Bennett's and Jankowski's. Doesn't matter who we fire or bring in if we are drafting like that still. Is Button actually that good? Serious question he keeps surviving how many management changes.

Not really disagreeing with you per se, but what about Gaudreau, Andersson, Monahan, Valimaki?

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Get rid of all players over age 25 - we need a new core

[Saqe]

Can't save the season if the top guys don't want to play.

[Philly06Cup]

If people here love Couturier / Konecny / Lindblom so much, may I suggest just cheering for the Flyers. =)

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by heep223

Not really disagreeing with you per se, but what about Gaudreau, Andersson, Monahan, Valimaki?

Every scouting group in the NHL will draft enough good players to put together a team that can compete in the NHL. I can look at any team in the NHL and see good pieces that were drafted. I can't say that since 2001 its been above league average though. They arent Oilers bad but the fact we haven't been able to draft up enough pieces to fill the gaps to have more than two deepish playoff runs in the last 20 years it makes me wonder. Goalies especially the Flames have had to trade for their number 1 for years, followed by centers we have never had a superstar since Button has been here as far as I know.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Every scouting group in the NHL will draft enough good players to put together a team that can compete in the NHL. I can look at any team in the NHL and see good pieces that were drafted. I can't say that since 2001 its been above league average though. They arent Oilers bad but the fact we haven't been able to draft up enough pieces to fill the gaps to have more than two deepish playoff runs in the last 20 years it makes me wonder. Goalies especially the Flames have had to trade for their number 1 for years, followed by centers we have never had a superstar since Button has been here as far as I know.

Sure but that’s kind of my point, doesn’t every team draft bad players too...that’s not unique to Calgary. If you really want to do an analysis of the Flames drafting record you have to look at the good as well, not just cherry pick the bad, and somehow compare to other teams.

[The Boy Wonder]

Button sucks

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by heep223

Sure but that’s kind of my point, doesn’t every team draft bad players too...that’s not unique to Calgary. If you really want to do an analysis of the Flames drafting record you have to look at the good as well, not just cherry pick the bad, and somehow compare to other teams.

Yes they do but the good teams draft more good than bad, win more trades and have some actual success, Can we say the Flames have really hit it out of the park since 2001 with the level of success they have had? Not cherry picking anything the team has had multiple bad 1st round picks and poor trades. The same person has been at the head of it since 2001. Im not going to type out every single one because I dont care enough or have the time to. That's not cherry picking. The info is available online. If everything has been changed with mgmt over the last 20 years but we still have issues with lazy uninspired players through multiple GMs, coaches and generations of players and so many "that's so Flames" moments maybe we look at the one thing that has never been changed.

It seems a bit absurd we can call out multiple GMs as being bad at drafting or selecting disappointing first rounders or pulling off bad signings and trades for multiple players many having compete, and coaching issues but the guy evaluating said players for the Gm's is bullet proof. Some how its Sutter's fault or Feasters fault or Brads fault 100%. Doesnt seem to matter who we bring in the team is medicore, Button evaluates the picks and the NHL trades, the GM gets pinned with it and he escapes for another day. Im not saying every one else isn't to blame for this mess but seems to me he is the one constant in two decades of mediocrity and should be open to criticism just like everyone else.

[united]

I don't make a big core-changing trade yet. It's tempting with emotions running high, but those impulsive, panic reactions lead to debacles like the return they got for Phaneuf.

Now a minor shakeup is definitely at play. Players needing a fresh start and/or seeing a reduced role, or rebuilding teams - preferably teams who aren't yet analytically competent so you can rip them off.


For example, something similar to Michael Frolik for Craig Smith.
Both struggling and playing reduced minutes. Contracts a wash and both expiring. Flames get a right shot. Predators save actual money.

Or if the Flames are desperate for a #2 RW, something more significant like Michael Frolik and Oliver Kylington (would love to go to LA) for Tyler Toffoli ($ retained).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by AC

As much as I like Bennett, it's easy to see that having our highest pick in franchise history turn into a grinder 3rd liner and not a franchise player has completely destroyed our team's window.

Now we're a middle of the pack team that won't bottom out enough to get the elite talent needed to win. Problem is even if we sell Gaudreau for a king's ransom and go for the tank, I have very little confidence in the players or picks we get back working out. Look what Iginla, Bouwmeester, Regehr, Cammalleri, Kiprusoff, etc. turned into for example.

Originally Posted by Psytic

I wonder this to i'm looking at a tank and quick re-tool but the track record of this scouting staff makes me wonder if we wouldn't end up with more Poirier's, Klimchuck's, Bennett's and Jankowski's. Doesn't matter who we fire or bring in if we are drafting like that still. Is Button actually that good? Serious question he keeps surviving how many management changes.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Any team would have taken Bennett at #4. Central Scouting had him #1 ffs

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Yep, that was just crappy luck. Ughhhh...typical Flames, highest pick in franchise history has to bust.

Originally Posted by AC

Exactly. I have a hard time criticizing the pick but that's the risk. We could land a top pick and still miss on the franchise players, setting the team back for several more years like Edmonton.

There was nothing stopping the flames from trading Bennett at any point in the last 5 years except for their own inability to critically analyze talent.

The inability to properly assess talent is what this entire house of cards is built on, whether it be backlund, Bennett, brouwer, neal, stone, Lazar, lucic, etc.

Asking the architect that couldn't see the forest for the trees to dismantle and then reassemble this is that insanity cliche about doing something over and over.

Blaming the Bennett pick for being the difference maker here, like the flames were just along for the ride, is completely absolving a flawed team building philosophy that's failed to identify talent through the lineup.

A 'season saving trade' is exactly that kind of failed philosophy in action.

Make decisions with the long term health of the organization in mind and let the short term success happen and accumulate as a result.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So that was
Frolik : 2019: 34 points in 65 games and +24 , for
Toffoli: 2019: 34 points in 82 games and -16
*Add Kylington

Buy high, sell low

[DeluxeMoustache]

nm

[Mass_nerder]

Wait until the deadline, sell off Hammer, Frolik, and possibly Backlund if you can get something significant in return.

Hope the hockey gods bless us with a top 1-3 pick.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Wait until the deadline, sell off Hammer, Frolik, and possibly Backlund if you can get something significant in return.



Hope the hockey gods bless us with a top 1-3 pick.

Cap space is golden in today’s NHL. You’re not getting anything for those three other than somebody else’s headache.

[DuffMan]

Text from a friend last night

“You guys need Taylor Hall bad”

[Wolfman]

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No save the season trades please.

Sounds like something we'll all end up regretting.

Ding Ding Ding!

"All we have to do is make the playoffs!"

Don't save the season, it will cost future seasons to do so. Build a better team, having come to the realization that certain aspects of this one are not working. Trading Gaudreau and keeping Jankowski, this kind of thing will just ensure mediocrity (at best).

[Saqe]

Hammer should return something good. Backlund- not so much.

[Split98]

[Edit: Unnecessary]

I get excited when Flames hockey is clicking, but this squad falling flat on its face in the playoffs is the fitting chapter of what this team represents. They were absolutely terrible to watch under Gully, and they are listless and boring yet again today and I can't stand this hockey anymore

Last year's team can start playing again at any time now.

[shogged]

The two trades that treliving attempted in the last year would have made such a big impact. Really a shame they didn’t happen