Mindy McCready has died

[troutman]

Originally Posted by valo403

Is that legal?

I would think your pets are part of your estate. Some people direct that the pets go to a new caregiver, some direct that the pets get euthanized.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Some clients instruct me in wills that they want a certain dog euthanized when they die, because that dog is so attached to that person.

I doubt the dog would see it that way

[Coys1882]

The sooner people realize that Mental diseases are no different than Heart disease; and that suicide/depression are symptoms no different than a heart attack we'll be a better society.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I agree in large part with what you are saying but this statement is complete crap. To e say that people don't have a choice and that they have no free will is garbage - people have a choice all the time not to commit suicide, they have a choice to seek help, there are so many choices that are available. I disagree with the original statement that it is the easy way out because it disregards the suffering, I think that yours is equally as foolish and potentially damaging.

I usually don't mind your posts, but your last few contributions to threads regarding mental illness reveal a startling level of ignorance. You may want to educate yourself a bit more before participating in threads like this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

The sooner people realize that Mental diseases are no different than Heart disease; and that suicide/depression are symptoms no different than a heart attack we'll be a better society.

I would agree with the sentiment here, but add that more then likely its easier to detect a on coming heart attack.

With a lot of suicides caused by depression it comes out of left field and we're sitting here saying "We never saw it coming"

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I usually don't mind your posts, but your last few contributions to threads regarding mental illness reveal a startling level of ignorance. You may want to educate yourself a bit more before participating in threads like this.

It isn't ignorance it is a difference of opinion. I really don't think that people with mental illness are helpless, I still believe that there is an element of free will to actually receive treatment, to say that there isn't any free will left is a misnomer. I have experience with mental illness, both from a family, personal and professional standpoint by the way, I have a solid understanding of the impact that it can have on the individual - I will say however that people always have a semblance of free will regardless of mental illness. It may be more difficult but people have a choice to pick up the phone, to talk to someone, to get help - to say that someone doesn't have a choice in the matter is in my opinion at least incorrect. People aren't helpless to the mental illness - free will is the essence of being human and I don't think that is lost.

[Dion]

not worth it!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

not worth it!

It is worth it, Dion. Ignorance towards mental illness needs to change.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It isn't ignorance it is a difference of opinion. I really don't think that people with mental illness are helpless, I still believe that there is an element of free will to actually receive treatment, to say that there isn't any free will left is a misnomer. I have experience with mental illness, both from a family, personal and professional standpoint by the way, I have a solid understanding of the impact that it can have on the individual - I will say however that people always have a semblance of free will regardless of mental illness. It may be more difficult but people have a choice to pick up the phone, to talk to someone, to get help - to say that someone doesn't have a choice in the matter is in my opinion at least incorrect. People aren't helpless to the mental illness - free will is the essence of being human and I don't think that is lost.

Yet you completely ignore the chemical and biological factors behind mental illness. Do you seriously go up to someone with Parkinson's and say "Quit twitching, you ####ing #####. You have the free will not to?" How about a schizophrenic. "Hey, dumbass, you're only have frightening hallucinations because you're letting it happen to you."

You can call it a difference of opinion, but yours is anecdotal, and generally refuted by science, thus ignorant.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It isn't ignorance it is a difference of opinion. I really don't think that people with mental illness are helpless, I still believe that there is an element of free will to actually receive treatment, to say that there isn't any free will left is a misnomer. I have experience with mental illness, both from a family, personal and professional standpoint by the way, I have a solid understanding of the impact that it can have on the individual - I will say however that people always have a semblance of free will regardless of mental illness. It may be more difficult but people have a choice to pick up the phone, to talk to someone, to get help - to say that someone doesn't have a choice in the matter is in my opinion at least incorrect. People aren't helpless to the mental illness - free will is the essence of being human and I don't think that is lost.

You do know that a lot of people suffering from mental illnesses don't perceive that they are ill right.

Just like a lot of people with Depression hide their symptoms because of social perceptions of that disease and they believe that it will pass either with time of self medication so they don't believe that they either need to reach out for help or that nobody can help them.

The brain doesn't sit outside of itself look at how it works and the Super-ego doesn't suddenly pop up and scream, your're f$cked up dude(BTW can I get a hell ya for using the term superego?)

Mental illness is framed around perception, the guy who cut off his victims head on the bus went off of medication because he didn't think he was that sick, and when he murdered that boy, it was perfectly normal to do so in his perception at the time.

Its not as easy as expecting a sick person to be able to decide to get help, that's cookie cutter bs psychology.

It usually takes an outside source to realize that a person is in distress and force them to get help.

A person that's hallucinating believes that those hallucinations are normal and part of their perception of their reality. They don't walk up to you and say, dude I think somethings wrong with me because that Dog told me to kill you. They're belief is that the dog did tell him to kill you and that's normal.

I don't want to be super harsh in this thread, but a lot of people are basing their theories of mental illness from the viewpoint of a normal healthy menatl state. being in control at every moment.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yet you completely ignore the chemical and biological factors behind mental illness. Do you seriously go up to someone with Parkinson's and say "Quit twitching, you ####ing #####. You have the free will not to?" How about a schizophrenic. "Hey, dumbass, you're only have frightening hallucinations because you're letting it happen to you."

You can call it a difference of opinion, but yours is anecdotal, and generally refuted by science, thus ignorant.

Obviously there are different mental illnesses and there isn't one solution that fits all cases, especially with a topic as complex as depression. In the case of schizophrenia it is a biochemical disorder which is exasperated often by social situations including social isolation. With regards to depression which also can result in suicidal ideations while there are biological aspects associated with the disease it is much more complex than that. To just say that someone is depressed because there is some wiring wrong with their brain doesn't really delve any deeper into the societal constructs that are associated with the disease and rather treatment is focused on an individual level. The effect of human interaction on mood and behaviours is widely known as is the case with social isolation... although it is a chicken and the egg situation.

I think that those who do commit/attempt suicide do view it as there being no other options left and that there is no choice other than suicide (even if there are exceptions to that, usually involving alcohol), in that case I agree that they don't view there as being any other choices... however there is still the options to get help, going to an emergency department, calling a help/crisis line, going out for a walk and clearing ones head and in that case I do think that there is some degree of choice with one's actions.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Obviously there are different mental illnesses and there isn't one solution that fits all cases, especially with a topic as complex as depression. In the case of schizophrenia it is a biochemical disorder which is exasperated often by social situations including social isolation. With regards to depression which also can result in suicidal ideations while there are biological aspects associated with the disease it is much more complex than that. To just say that someone is depressed because there is some wiring wrong with their brain doesn't really delve any deeper into the societal constructs that are associated with the disease and rather treatment is focused on an individual level. The effect of human interaction on mood and behaviours is widely known as is the case with social isolation... although it is a chicken and the egg situation.

I think that those who do commit/attempt suicide do view it as there being no other options left and that there is no choice other than suicide (even if there are exceptions to that, usually involving alcohol), in that case I agree that they don't view there as being any other choices... however there is still the options to get help, going to an emergency department, calling a help/crisis line, going out for a walk and clearing ones head and in that case I do think that there is some degree of choice with one's actions.

Many people who commit suicide have gone through all of the processes you listed and still struggle. They see no choices left. The bottom line is that your stance is extremely flawed, but fortunately becoming less and less tolerated.

[AR_Six]

In terms of choice, it's an interesting way to frame the discussion... I don't know that it gets to a point that there are "no other choices left". It's more like, every day, the option to commit suicide is there, and most days you think about it. It's a valid possible alternative that seems, to varying degrees, like it might be a pretty damned good idea, and you spend a fair bit of time contemplating the various avenues of actually carrying it out. To greater or lesser extent depending on whether you're in a rough patch (I don't mean empirically in terms of bad stuff going on in life so much as in terms of the illness). But it's always there lurking in the background and always a totally valid possibility.

I guess what I'm saying is that mental illness, depression, whatever you want to call this failure of neurotransmitters, doesn't so much remove the capacity for choice as make certain avenues - suicide in this case - seem like a totally reasonable and potentially preferable option to all the others. What I guess most would refer to as a rational thought process by which one would reach the conclusion that not jumping off of a bridge is the way to go is effectively precluded.

I guess it's not all that different from reacting to the hallucination of a dog telling you to kill someone by assuming that that's a perfectly normal thing for a dog to be doing, like someone else brought up. Sure, you could ignore the dog, but he had a hell of a good argument.

[Dion]

The Reasons to go on Living Project.

In the medical profession, we do not understand the process of transition from wanting to die to wanting to live. Understanding this process is critical to improving care for people who are suicidal and it is a difficult area to research because people need to share their innermost thoughts and feelings.

We hope that by studying the stories this site is gathering, we will be able to develop better ways to help people who are suicidal. The project will help professionals who treat people who make a suicide attempt and will also offer public education and support by sharing some of the stories we receive.

If you have a story about choosing life, we hope you will share it with us. We need your story to make The Reasons to go on Living Project a success.

Your anonymity is guaranteed and your help will be invaluable.

http://www.thereasons.ca/?gclid=CNK5...Fap_Qgod-nsASQ

Stories..... A place where the ignorant can learn and be educated.

Every story sent to The Reasons to go on Living Project is unique. The stories describe many different experiences and emotions. Some are very brief, some lengthy. Some describe many events, some focus on the author’s suicide attempt. The stories posted here describe themes and ideas that are common to many of the stories we have received. We hope these stories will help you understand some of the difficulties, challenges and changes experienced by people who considered ending their life. We hope you find them educational and inspirational.

We are grateful to every person who shares their story with the Project. As you read these stories, remember that many more are needed for the Project. Every story is important to help us understand the experience of recovery after a suicide attempt. Please consider participating in the Reasons to go on Living Project by sending us your story. To submit your story, click here.

http://www.thereasons.ca/stories.php

[Dion]

Originally Posted by valo403

Many people who commit suicide have gone through all of the processes you listed and still struggle. They see no choices left. The bottom line is that your stance is extremely flawed, but fortunately becoming less and less tolerated.

This will help boster your argument with MMM......

Losing a client to suicide - Ruminations of a Safer counsler

As Coordinator of SAFER (Suicide Attempt Follow-up Education and Research) I am privileged to manage the 9 skilled therapists and 2 dedicated support staff that make up our team, a service under the auspices of Vancouver Coastal Health. SAFER offers counseling and support to three groups of people – those who are feeling suicidal or who have made a suicide attempt, those who are concerned about someone who is suicidal, and those who have had a loved one die by suicide. I have also worked as a therapist in the program for eighteen plus years. A few days ago I met with a Case Manager from another agency who was devastated by the loss of a client to suicide. I was prompted to give her something I had written awhile back, and then to think the piece might have broader value. Here it is.

I want to share some of my experiences as a clinician who has, as far as I know, had four clients die by suicide. (I have altered identifying information in referring to their stories.) I do not write to justify insensitive or unprofessional behaviour by clinicians, me or anyone else, after a suicide death. I do know this happens. However my wish is to underscore that clinicians are survivors too. These losses can touch us deeply. We also struggle with shock, horror and sadness, feelings of guilt, self-recrimination, inadequacy, shame and despair when someone we have worked with kills themselves.

http://www.thereasons.ca/stories/story_loss3.php

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I did some research on it and talked to some professionals in the field and I must say that some of my above mentioned statements were overly harsh and for that I apologize. I don't believe that people choose to commit suicide, rather that they view it as the only logical choice that is available. That being said as a society it needs to be reinforced that there are other choices that are available.

With regards to depression, there is so little that is known about the causes of the disease that to say that it is just related to neurotransmitters that misfire would be incorrect and a massive simplification of the disease process because there are a number of interacting aspects, including social isolation as I have continually mentioned that play a part in the development of depression and the prolonging of the timeframe symptoms once it become present. The predominant model which is associated with the development of depression is a biophychosocial model which pretty much says that the causes for depression isn't a simple who-dun-it and fixing the problem but it is a relationship between a number of interrelated factors.

One last thing is that the term mental illness in itself is an awful term - it lumps a large number of diseases and personality disorders into the same category as there is nothing that really connects someone with schizophrenia and autism and major depression. People talk about mental illness in broad terms but that is like saying cancer illness.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

With regards to depression, there is so little that is known about the causes of the disease that to say that it is just related to neurotransmitters that misfire would be incorrect and a massive simplification of the disease process because there are a number of interacting aspects, including social isolation as I have continually mentioned that play a part in the development of depression and the prolonging of the timeframe symptoms once it become present. The predominant model which is associated with the development of depression is a biophychosocial model which pretty much says that the causes for depression isn't a simple who-dun-it and fixing the problem but it is a relationship between a number of interrelated factors.

I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with this. I think people were mostly taking umbrage with you saying that depression, or how people deal with it is a personal choice. There is certainly an aspect of personal choices with regards to depression, but there are also different types of depression. If someone has an issue producing or retaining seratonin, dopamine, etc., no amount of exercise or just getting out of the house is going to completely mitigate the symptoms.

I approve of a cognitive approach to depression, but that also takes a lot of coaching and resources that many people don't have access to.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Here is a positive video from a Ted Talk on body language and it's own personal powers. I found it fascinating! I tried to remember the times I felt small and the times I felt larger than life and how my posture would telecast how I was feeling.

She even talks about how quickly our hormones can change when status changes.

http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_y...o_you_are.html