[Signing] Leafs sign Marner to 6 year deal ($10.893mil AAV)

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

13.36% of the salary cap for an elite RW’er for 6 years, all prime years - no excess, post-apex years.

This is how contracts should be.

I hope we manage 8 years, 80M for Tkachuk.

Disagree. Top end salaries are outpacing revenues. Those percentages used to be for a handful of franchise players in the league, not 3 on a team. 4 players for 40 M is stupid.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Disagree. Top end salaries are outpacing revenues. Those percentages used to be for a handful of franchise players in the league, not 3 on a team. 4 players for 40 M is stupid.

They aren’t, at all.

Jarome Iginla’s contract signed to start the 2005/2006 season? 17.56% of the salary cap.

Crosby’s 2nd contract - 5 years long, 17.3% of the cap.

Is Marner is as good as Iggy was back then? Hell no. But 4% of the overall cap lower makes sense for a salary.

It’s fair to argue that perhaps Toronto is overly top-heavy on top-end forwards and that they’re constructing their roster wrong, but historically the contracts they’ve given their players are right in line with where they should be.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Owen15

This is exactly why it should be clamped down on.

I have two beefs:

1) Relative differences in taxes from location to location. I think the cap should be in after tax dollars.
2) The ability of wealthy teams backed by big balance sheet corporations to leverage time value of money to make their location more attractive than other franchises. The yearly payments should be +-10% of the AAV of the contract.

I could agree with 2 if you could ever make 1 fly but that is really tricky because if you mitigate the tax difference it could actually make big destinations such as New York, California, and yes Toronto even more attractive for some. If the money is the same everywhere why not go to a big attractive city with lots of things to do and/or good weather.

[Poe969]

To win?

The leafs will not win while paying half of the team salary to 4 guys. Players who want to win go to balanced teams and don't just chase $$$

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by ST20

I could agree with 2 if you could ever make 1 fly but that is really tricky because if you mitigate the tax difference it could actually make big destinations such as New York, California, and yes Toronto even more attractive for some. If the money is the same everywhere why not go to a big attractive city with lots of things to do and/or good weather.

I agree these are completely related.

In a perfect world players would be drawn to franchises that are building solid teams with chances to win it all year over year. Like Detroit in their hey day. Is Detroit a destination the way NY, Tampa or Vegas are? I don’t think so. Franchise attributes like tax rates and ability to front load or make lump sum payments to increase the NPV of the contract should be eliminated. Because as you say the actual attributes of the location the franchises are in make it hard enough to have a level playing field across the league.

I admit deep down I hate the fact that Calgary is bottom third of the league as a destination. At least we’re not Edmonton.

[bluejays]

Guys, the Leafs aren't in a complete bind. None of those high value contracts to this point are untradeable. Assuming Marner, Nylander, Matthews and Tavares keep up their play - and there shouldn't be any reason to doubt that they do - they can always move one for a lot of picks if required. Given Nylander has been promised, my guess is that at some point the GM may go back to him and give a gentleman's heads up that he's the odd man out. I'd have said Kapanen would be out but his contract is very friendly. Matthews is the core of the team with Marner, but I could see Marner being next on the list if need be considering Tavares is the hometown boy they've always coveted. The Leafs have a top heavy budget structure which is just another way to go. St. Louis tried for years by having an even type structure through their lineup and it didn't go anywhere until this past year. This is just something else to try, and with teams like Pittsburgh winning in the past, it could work.

Anyway, I think Marner exceeded his contract value of about 10%, which isn't that bad. He's an elite playmaker, and underrated I'd argue. So Dubas got played for about 10% more than he should have, but he couldn't have gone through the same scenario as he did with Nylander as that would be a hard one to sell to the fans. Dubas has been getting killed recently, but IMO I don't think he deserves too much. He's done well, and he's calculated. I don't think many would have seen Nylander as being so passive last year, so it's always a risk with any approach. Some could argue that locking up 4 star players means they have nothing to work for now that they have a fat contract. It's just another way of doing things and the result will show by them winning (or not).

[Jacks]

They aren’t, at all.

Jarome Iginla’s contract signed to start the 2005/2006 season? 17.56% of the salary cap.

Crosby’s 2nd contract - 5 years long, 17.3% of the cap.

Is Marner is as good as Iggy was back then? Hell no. But 4% of the overall cap lower makes sense for a salary.

It’s fair to argue that perhaps Toronto is overly top-heavy on top-end forwards and that they’re constructing their roster wrong, but historically the contracts they’ve given their players are right in line with where they should be.

I believe Iggy was all UFA years for a player proven to one of the best in the league who just lead his team to the cup finals.
Comparing Marner to Crosby?

These are not comparables to a player who has done nothing and the contract is mostly RFA years.

I hope we manage 8 years, 80M for Tkachuk

No way in hell should we be paying Tkachuk 10M/yr

I have faith that Treliving and the other sane GM's will work to correct the idiocy going on right now.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I believe Iggy was all UFA years for a player proven to one of the best in the league who just lead his team to the cup finals.
Comparing Marner to Crosby?

These are not comparables to a player who has done nothing and the contract is mostly RFA years.



No way in hell should we be paying Tkachuk 10M/yr

I have faith that Treliving and the other sane GM's will work to correct the idiocy going on right now.

I personally don't think Tkachuk is worth $8M let alone $10M, but the hockey experts think the world of Tkachuk. I think he's a solid player, but offensively I can't see him being the franchise player some make him out to be. He's not Marchand offensively and it's hard to say if he ever will be, but they're paying for future projected value and maybe $8M is appropriate, but $10M would be gross overkill for a player who's not offensively gifted at the high end.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I believe Iggy was all UFA years for a player proven to one of the best in the league who just lead his team to the cup finals.
Comparing Marner to Crosby?

These are not comparables to a player who has done nothing and the contract is mostly RFA years.



No way in hell should we be paying Tkachuk 10M/yr

I have faith that Treliving and the other sane GM's will work to correct the idiocy going on right now.

Comparing in that I’m showing Marner is getting 4% less of the overall cap than Crosby was, which is not insignificant at all.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by fleury

I personally don't think Tkachuk is worth $8M let alone $10M, but the hockey experts think the world of Tkachuk. I think he's a solid player, but offensively I can't see him being the franchise player some make him out to be. He's not Marchand offensively and it's hard to say if he ever will be, but they're paying for future projected value and maybe $8M is appropriate, but $10M would be gross overkill for a player who's not offensively gifted at the high end.

34/43/77 is offensively gifted at the high end. 25th in the league in goals and 31st in points.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I believe Iggy was all UFA years for a player proven to one of the best in the league who just lead his team to the cup finals.
Comparing Marner to Crosby?

These are not comparables to a player who has done nothing and the contract is mostly RFA years.



No way in hell should we be paying Tkachuk 10M/yr

I have faith that Treliving and the other sane GM's will work to correct the idiocy going on right now.

Even still, I don’t put much stock in data points from the first year of the cap era. More relevant in my mind would be the area to which things normalized as GMs figured out how to allocate salary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I suspect because the time value of that money from July 1st until end of season if he gets a 7 percent return is roughly another 600,000 dollars in year one (this year). If he invested the bonus in year two over the three months before an nhl player even receives a cheque he would get an additional 250,000 at 7 percent in the first 3 months. Nice easy way for the player to make more money than the yearly contract amount. Front loading those bonuses means he probably will earn closer to 11.5 each year (in a world with no escrow, either way his money will make money it would not have made if he had to wait until March and April for his big cheques).

Your interest rates are way off. For time value of money, you have to use risk-free rates. Try 2% for a year, and 1% for 3 months. 7% is an investment return that comes with a commensurate amount of risk.

The issue the league has with these deals is that they give an advantage to the rich teams that can afford to do them.

[Dajazz]

Somebody please tell Dubas it's ok to come with a counter offer.

[bax]

Originally Posted by fleury

I personally don't think Tkachuk is worth $8M let alone $10M, but the hockey experts think the world of Tkachuk. I think he's a solid player, but offensively I can't see him being the franchise player some make him out to be. He's not Marchand offensively and it's hard to say if he ever will be, but they're paying for future projected value and maybe $8M is appropriate, but $10M would be gross overkill for a player who's not offensively gifted at the high end.

Not Marchand? When Marchand was Tkachuk’s age he was playing in the AHL still.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by fleury

I personally don't think Tkachuk is worth $8M let alone $10M, but the hockey experts think the world of Tkachuk. I think he's a solid player, but offensively I can't see him being the franchise player some make him out to be. He's not Marchand offensively and it's hard to say if he ever will be, but they're paying for future projected value and maybe $8M is appropriate, but $10M would be gross overkill for a player who's not offensively gifted at the high end.

Tkachuk did just hit 77 points playing on the 2nd line...took Marchand 8 seasons to get to that point total

I can give you a list of guys Tkachuk outscored last season that are certainly offensively gifted at the high end...(Malkin, Landeskog, Backstrom, Stone, Teresenko, ect.)

Don't want to pay him 10M either but hard to question his offence with the numbers he put up in his 3rd season.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Disagree. Top end salaries are outpacing revenues. Those percentages used to be for a handful of franchise players in the league, not 3 on a team. 4 players for 40 M is stupid.

Top salaries were normal immediately after the lockout.

Then a lot of the top players signed bajillion year long contracts with fake years at the end to keep the cap hits lower.

I think we are just seeing the league readjust.

[Robbob]

So he will be the highest player in the league, in terms of cash paid out this season. Didn't think I would see that.

[simonsays]

Wow. So Dubas gave Matthews what he wanted. Taveres a dream position (and contract). Nylander got his asking point (including games not played). Aaand Marner gets his big cheese. Surely this will work out for everyone right?

Honestly I get picking up Taveres, there are only so many times you can acquire a #1 center and already having one is no excuse. But giving in on the Mathews contract was weak, and then letting Nylander write his own contract after holding out was super weak. Dubas might be a generational talent evaluator, but he's worse than Benning at contract negotiations.

Seriously what is Dubas doing over there? This is even before we talk about the defense contracts....

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by fleury

I personally don't think Tkachuk is worth $8M let alone $10M, but the hockey experts think the world of Tkachuk. I think he's a solid player, but offensively I can't see him being the franchise player some make him out to be. He's not Marchand offensively and it's hard to say if he ever will be, but they're paying for future projected value and maybe $8M is appropriate, but $10M would be gross overkill for a player who's not offensively gifted at the high end.

Lol, give your head a shake man, Tkachuk is a bigger and a very likely better version of Marchand, Marchand was 27 before he reached 30 goals and 60 points, Tkachuk did it in spades at 21.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Your interest rates are way off. For time value of money, you have to use risk-free rates. Try 2% for a year, and 1% for 3 months. 7% is an investment return that comes with a commensurate amount of risk.



The issue the league has with these deals is that they give an advantage to the rich teams that can afford to do them.

The average rate of return of the stock market since its inception is about 10%.

NHL players aren’t putting their money into GIC’s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk