Edmonton is No Good Episode 4: New Rink, Same Stink

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Yes Edmonton never learn by all means dump your unprepared first round pick into your opening night lineup again.

They probably should for the 9 games. Oiler fans seem as high on him as we are on Valimaki. Just makes way more sense for a scoring winger to get an audition.

Who are we kidding though, Chia probably got strong armed by Yamamoto's agent in the ELC. "Give my player 40 games with the big club or he's going back to Japan for development."

[FireGilbert]

It's actually a reasonable question if the Oilers can afford an ELC.

If Yamamoto hits a few performances bonuses they could carry over into next season when McDavid's contract kicks in. Also by burning a year off his ELC they will need to give him a 2nd contract a year sooner.

Knowing the Oilers they will burn his ELC in 40 games before sending back to junior. Then next year he will make the team, be put on McDavid's wing for two seasons and be given a 8x8 contract.

[red sky]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why could the Oilers not afford an ELC?

Literal Textcritic being a wet blanket again.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

It's actually a reasonable question if the Oilers can afford an ELC.

If Yamamoto hits a few performances bonuses they could carry over into next season when McDavid's contract kicks in. Also by burning a year off his ELC they will need to give him a 2nd contract a year sooner.

Well, if Yamamoto can play at the NHL level his contract won't be a problem. His bonuses are maxed out at $230,000, so the most he can make in any year of his ELC is $1,155,000.

But, he should go back to juniors. The Oilers will need cheap contracts and it'd be better to let him percolate another year in junior IMO.

I honestly hope he goes pointless over the next couple of preseason games.
If he goes pointless then management can point to him not being productive when the pace started to pick up towards regular season speed.

If he does keep scoring.......he has 5 goals already (Actually 6. They called back a "kick in" that would have counted had they used video review). How do you tell him with a straight face that he hasn't earned at least a 9 game trial?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

...If he does keep scoring.......he has 5 goals already (Actually 6. They called back a "kick in" that would have counted had they used video review). How do you tell him with a straight face that he hasn't earned at least a 9 game trial?

In Edmonton that is virtually impossible. Literally unthinkable... ...in Edmonton.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In Edmonton that is virtually impossible. Literally unthinkable... ...in Edmonton.

Meh. Calgary has done the exact same thing with high picks.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Meh. Calgary has done the exact same thing with high picks.

Yamamoto is a late 1st rounder, hardly a high pick.

I haven't seen much of the Oilers preseason but certainly Yamamoto has put up impressive goal numbers, but that just means you have a good hard talk with him, explain that there is still a lot of progressing to do and "we" (oilers brass) feel there another season of junior isn't anything to be upset about. He turns 19 in a couple days, let him know the door is wide open next year as a 20 year old.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Meh. Calgary has done the exact same thing with high picks.

Bwahahahahaha!!! Are you being serious??

In the past two years:

Leon Draisaitl 2014–15 — 37 GP 2G 9Pts
Jesse Puljajarvi 2016–17 — 28 GP 1G 8Pts

Bear in mind that these are both players selected at least as high as the Flames have EVER drafted.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Bwahahahahaha!!! Are you being serious??

In the past two years:

Leon Draisaitl 2014–15 — 37 GP 2G 9Pts
Jesse Puljajarvi 2016–17 — 28 GP 1G 8Pts

Bear in mind that these are both players selected at least as high as the Flames have EVER drafted.

What's with all the bluster? No need to go full keyboard warrior.

Let's keep things something civil.

I'm just saying that Calgary has also chosen to develop their three recent high picks at the NHL level rather than in juniors.

Worked well for Monahan. Not so much so far for Bennett. Looks on track for Tkachuk.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the future.

[GioforPM]

Bennett was sent back to junior the year after his draft.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Bwahahahahaha!!! Are you being serious??

In the past two years:

Leon Draisaitl 2014–15 — 37 GP 2G 9Pts
Jesse Puljajarvi 2016–17 — 28 GP 1G 8Pts

Bear in mind that these are both players selected at least as high as the Flames have EVER drafted.

Not to mention Gagner, Cogliano, RHN, and Yakupov who all put up great numbers as rookies getting big minutes yet failed to become complete hockey players and immediately regressed. It's not a stretch to say all four of them should have been given another season of development to bulk up and work out their kinks.

When it comes to the development of first round picks the Oilers are a lesson in what not to do.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

...I'm just saying that Calgary has also chosen to develop their three recent high picks at the NHL level rather than in juniors...

I'm saying that Edmonton is no good.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JFK

Yamamoto is a late 1st rounder, hardly a high pick.

I haven't seen much of the Oilers preseason but certainly Yamamoto has put up impressive goal numbers, but that just means you have a good hard talk with him, explain that there is still a lot of progressing to do and "we" (oilers brass) feel there another season of junior isn't anything to be upset about. He turns 19 in a couple days, let him know the door is wide open next year as a 20 year old.

That's what I would like to see. Who knows though. Oilers did hold back other first rounders like Nurse, Paajarvi, Klefbom, Eberle, so that has been the trend with their picks that haven't been in the top five.

Last forward to jump directly into the NHL from the bottom half of the first round was Perron in 2007. He was a second year draft eligible I believe though.
Pastrnak kind of did it in his draft year, but spent the first 25 games in the minors so it's not the same.

Super rare for it to happen.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Not to mention Gagner, Cogliano, RHN, and Yakupov who all put up great numbers as rookies getting big minutes yet failed to become complete hockey players and immediately regressed. It's not a stretch to say all four of them should have been given another season of development to bulk up and work out their kinks.

When it comes to the development of first round picks the Oilers are a lesson in what not to do.

They brought in all of their high draft picks (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yak, Gagner, etc) without seasoning, and very little veteran presence to guide them, and handed them the keys to the team.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Not to mention Gagner, Cogliano, RHN, and Yakupov who all put up great numbers as rookies getting big minutes yet failed to become complete hockey players and immediately regressed. It's not a stretch to say all four of them should have been given another season of development to bulk up and work out their kinks.

When it comes to the development of first round picks the Oilers are a lesson in what not to do.

Cogliano played two years of college after being drafted.

It's hard to say how things will work out sometimes. Monahan worked out his kinks at the NHL level and he's doing fine.

Do you think he could be a more well rounded player if the Flames had given him another year in junior? Do you think Bennett has been hampered by playing too early?

I'm not sure if its an actual thing. I mean, there are lots of examples of guys who recovered from slow starts being pushed into the NHL at 18. Thornton, Burns, Niederreiter, Draisaitl. Some guys don't recover, or stall, but perhaps that would have happened anyway. Look at a guy like Kesler. Didn't do much offensively at all at the AHL/NHL level at the age of 19. Scored 75 points 6 years later.

Other guys are given lots of time to mature and still stall out and don't reach their potential. Detroit ripened Nyquist for years, and everyone thought he was going to be the next Datsyuk/Zetterberg. He hasn't come close to those heights.

If I were a GM I would err on the side of caution. Especially to preserve ELC contracts, but I don't know for sure that putting a player into the NHL "too early" causes any kind of lasting damage to their career.

[Heavy Jack]

both Tkachuk and Monahan stepped into the NHL from Juniors right after the draft - one could argue Bennett would have if he wasn't injured but he still did technically go back for another year in Juniors albeit a short year.

Edmonton consistently rushed players into the show year after year after year and went as far as 39 games for Draisaitl before finally realizing he needed more time - same goes for Pool party. It seems like they finally learned that you can't just throw every top 3 drafted player into the NHL right away.

There is no question this stunted some of the growth in your younger players and also put Edmonton into contract binds down the road as the ELC years followed to quickly on these higher end players.

Yakupov was destroyed by starting to early in the NHL, RNH I think has stalled at this point in his career and is putting up mediocre numbers for a 1st overall.

Its nice having a Monahan or Tkachuk step in right away -- or in your case a Hall or a McDavid -- they are the exception to the rule but to start every high end pick right away in the NHL seems like a reckless way to manage talent/players. Hall was good to go, McDavid was obviously ready too but players like RNH, Yak, Draisaitl and Pool Party were exposed to the NHL far too soon IMO.

[Heavy Jack]

Lets see how that's worked for Calgary - 1st's from 2011 to present:
Baertschi - Wasn't rushed at all, an emergency call-up ended up being a driving factor in what split this player and the team up IMO; Baertschi wasn't willing to put the work in at the lower level and pouted about it. Not rushed.

Janko - A true project pick and it's looking like patience will prove to be a virtue.

Monahan - Gave him every opportunity, let him know he had to earn every bit of time that was given to him. Doubled his rookie season totals and matched his output the following two seasons after -- Successful early start.

Bennett - Shoulder surgery got in the way of a potential early start -- Has struggled with offensive totals since versus expectations but its a good argument on whether that was because of an early start. Rookie season was his draft +1 year.

Tkachuk - See Monahan; this kid truly earned staying up and looks poised to match or better his rookie season this year.

Valimaki - Looks like the Flames are going to continue their smart, realistic management of 1st round talent.

How have the Oilers done since 11?

RNH - A solid rookie campaign was followed by a lock out shortened season and then 2 back to back 56 point seasons. Not exactly 1st overall type numbers for the pivot -- add to that a mediocre 43 point effort in a full 82 campaign with the likes of McDavid on the team and one has to think if we have already seen the ceiling for this player. He needs a big season this year to prove the doubters wrong or he's just going to be a middle 6 / 2nd line center which isn't bad but isn't great considering his draft spot.

Yak - The player is a shell of what made him go 1st overall. Everything was given to this kid to 'succeed' -- ice time, line mates, opportunities and he pissed it all away. Started far, far too early and only Edmonton a nobody and a 3rd round pick. Terrible return on a 1st overall and a great example of starting someone too early.

Nurse - Proper management of a 7th overall, they've given him time and he has grown at a good rate since being drafted; he's right where you'd expect him to be.

Draisaitl - Thankfully for him McDavid has come in and turned his career back around and in the right direction but he had a down right brutal rookie campaign and was sent down just so they didn't burn a year of his ELC.

McDavid - Anyone could manage this player correctly.

Puljujarvi - Rushed him again and it hurt his confidence; wasn't a big scorer in the AHL because of it. He was rushed but they sent him down in time to not completely destroy his confidence. What a waste of a rookie campaign (25 games min)

Yamamoto - Looks like they are going to give this kid the time he needs to grow.

[GioforPM]

The two first rounders who made the team, Monahan and Tkachuk were also placed in situations where they could succeed. Monahan was given somewhat sheltered minutes at first and Tkachuk was placed with Backlund and Frolik, who are notoriously good at lifting linemates. Plus they befitted from a team with decent team defence and work ethic.

In contrast, Hall, RNH, Yakupov were all thrown in the deep end. No veteran help, no sheltered minutes, no team structure and bad coaching.

[bubbsy]

wow, the oilers are going to put in a 1st year prospect into their lineup!

Isn't that a pretty bold move for a team that is in the high pressure position of "Cup finals or bust".... So many high expectations upon the oilers, might be a tough spot, but, i mean, they know what they're doing

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Lets see how that's worked for Calgary - 1st's from 2011 to present:
Baertschi - Wasn't rushed at all, an emergency call-up ended up being a driving factor in what split this player and the team up IMO; Baertschi wasn't willing to put the work in at the lower level and pouted about it. Not rushed.

Janko - A true project pick and it's looking like patience will prove to be a virtue.

how come? based on a good pre-season like Yamamoto?

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

RNH - A solid rookie campaign was followed by a lock out shortened season and then 2 back to back 56 point seasons. Not exactly 1st overall type numbers for the pivot -- add to that a mediocre 43 point effort in a full 82 campaign with the likes of McDavid on the team and one has to think if we have already seen the ceiling for this player. He needs a big season this year to prove the doubters wrong or he's just going to be a middle 6 / 2nd line center which isn't bad but isn't great considering his draft spot.

Yak - The player is a shell of what made him go 1st overall. Everything was given to this kid to 'succeed' -- ice time, line mates, opportunities and he pissed it all away. Started far, far too early and only Edmonton a nobody and a 3rd round pick. Terrible return on a 1st overall and a great example of starting someone too early.

did you forget RNH finished tied for the lead in rookie points and finished 2nd in Calder trophy voting?
he was ready for the NHL at 18 and proved it


and its time to admit Yak is simply a bust with no hockey IQ...hence why the scouting staff didn't want to take him, but Katz did

getting a 3rd rounder for him isn't "terrible" at all...I'd have given him away for free