2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Is the best of the terrible options.

Depends on the cap hit, doesn't it? If Talbot is more worried about term and will take 2m for 4 years, it would give us more money to spend on other areas of the team.

[dino7c]

Rarely is a team dumb enough to lose their star MVP goalie. If Vancouver is dumb enough the Flames should be all over it.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Best option for achieving what results? First round exits?

This is a serious awful response man. Talbot was excellent for most of the playoffs

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Rarely is a team dumb enough to lose their star MVP goalie. If Vancouver is dumb enough the Flames should be all over it.

It was pretty smart of Columbus to not keep two time Vezina winner Sergei Bobrovsky. They didn't have much of a choice, but still.
It would have been smart of LA to trade away Quick a few years ago.

Losing assets generally isn't as bad as overpaying players.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is nonsensical to imagine that a player's determination to stay or leave the team that drafted him correlates to his level of skill and ability.

/I]
But to what end? I personally think Rittich has more room to grow, but I certainly understand why some think he is what he is at this point. So how far do the Flames follow this philosophy IF THERE IS NO GOALIE IN THE SYSTEM READY TO MAKE THE JUMP TO THE NHL?


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Methinks the analytical, Archeologist speaks and not a dream filled star struck kid suddenly in the bigs!
BTW I do admire your work, very much! My backgrounds Astronomy but I've subscribed to Archeology for 20 years. Every second month! You do cool work.


If you're suggesting you can simply buy and trade an entire roster and win a cup with no successful draft picks I would sure argue the point.

History says different, obviously there is something to the amount of drive and desire young players exhibit when they've made it bigs because the other elephant in the room is the number of home grown players every cup winner has. It goes way further back. 11 PLUS team drafted or FAs from europe NCAA.

You can't suggest that all players are just cold fish and the money is all its about. 11 plus home grown on just about every winner except as I recall LA with 8 or 9 led by Kopitar. You're submission doesn't account for the ego's. If you just get a cup of coffee thats different but to make the team like Mangiapane and Dube just did is exciting for them and both would loose a bit of confidence for a while if they were part of a trade this fall. It would shock them a bit.

How do you whos going to play well and improve in goal, I sure don't. When Rittich signed no one, likely even Management knew, he'd be a starter 2 seasons in a row at all. I sure didn't.

2 seasons ago Binnington was a bust, laboring as a loaner to a Boston farm team when he got the call up.

Voodoo goalies. I know having a core of good and great players home grown wins. I would suggest for what ever reason goalies are a huge part of that "core" group tradition.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

This is a serious awful response man. Talbot was excellent for most of the playoffs

He was not "excellent" against Dallas.

He was perfect in Game 3, and then the rest of it was pretty bad. He let in more low-danger shots in 1 round (the series Vs. Dallas) than the goalies in the final 4 did in all of the playoffs. You can't do that and be considered "excellent". You just can't. When you let in a high number of low-danger goals, you're erasing the good work of your team. This is why Treliving is sniffing around every goalie available. He knows it was a weakness.

[Poe969]

One player isn't going to come in and make this team a legit contender. They need more than a shakeup, they need to change this team a lot. If they said the Flames didn't have a salary cap and had unlimited money, they still couldn't turn this team into a contender. Would adding Pietrangelo make this the best team in the west? If they added Hall, Pietrangelo and Lehner, would this team be a powerhouse? They can't do all of that because there is a cap but even if there wasn't, would those guys come to the Flames?

I had a conversation with someone about this, the team needs to fix a lot of positions and not just by adding players. The time is now. There are some asset rich teams who are looking to improve.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Your happy to be a runner up???
Stop gap okay but don't spend big money on one. Anything over 4 for a stop gap is a wasted effort.

You don't think being there in 2015 helped some of the guys on the current Lightning players this year? If a stop gap gets the Flames to the finals next year yes I would be very pleased. No homegrown guy is going to do it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

One player isn't going to come in and make this team a legit contender. They need more than a shakeup, they need to change this team a lot. If they said the Flames didn't have a salary cap and had unlimited money, they still couldn't turn this team into a contender. Would adding Pietrangelo make this the best team in the west? If they added Hall, Pietrangelo and Lehner, would this team be a powerhouse? They can't do all of that because there is a cap but even if there wasn't, would those guys come to the Flames?

I had a conversation with someone about this, the team needs to fix a lot of positions and not just by adding players. The time is now. There are some asset rich teams who are looking to improve.

I strongly disagree. This team is really only a solid goalie and top 4 D man from being a possible contender. Sometimes the best thing is to stop shuffling the chairs and let the core work through it together and learn.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

...If you're suggesting you can simply buy and trade an entire roster and win a cup with no successful draft picks I would sure argue the point.

This is not what I am suggesting. We are talking about swapping out one position via free agency.

History says different, obviously there is something to the amount of drive and desire young players exhibit when they've made it bigs because the other elephant in the room is the number of home grown players every cup winner has. It goes way further back. 11 PLUS team drafted or FAs from europe NCAA.

I also agree that it is impossible to win without a judicious amount of homegrown talent. But I object to the notion that the top prospects are somehow more motivated than others to remain with their drafting team. I think this is something that definitely shifts from one player to another, and is in no way tied to talent level.

You can't suggest that all players are just cold fish and the money is all its about. 11 plus home grown on just about every winner except as I recall LA with 8 or 9 led by Kopitar. You're submission doesn't account for the ego's. If you just get a cup of coffee thats different but to make the team like Mangiapane and Dube just did is exciting for them and both would loose a bit of confidence for a while if they were part of a trade this fall. It would shock them a bit.

I did not mean to suggest this. I was merely pointing out that not all players will be as committed to their drafting teams.

How do you whos going to play well and improve in goal, I sure don't. When Rittich signed no one, likely even Management knew, he'd be a starter 2 seasons in a row at all. I sure didn't.

2 seasons ago Binnington was a bust, laboring as a loaner to a Boston farm team when he got the call up.

Voodoo goalies. I know having a core of good and great players home grown wins. I would suggest for what ever reason goalies are a huge part of that "core" group tradition.

And now Binnington again looks like a bust after an awful playoffs. You are correct: goalies are voodoo. But I beg to differ with your read on goalies needing to be part of the "core" group. So, Binnington is a really good example which rather exemplifies this point: when he arrived in St Louis, he was a nobody. He was most definitely not a part of the "core" of the team at any point prior to the 2019 playoffs, and yet he won the Stanley Cup. Fast-forward a year, after having secured the starter's net and a big new contract, and he nearly single-handedly handed the Vancouver Canucks a Round One victory. His elevation to the team's core arguably works against the notion that this was an integral element to team success.

My point is not that a goalie cannot be part of the core, but rather that these attributes are too binary for forming clear conclusions. Every player is a little different from every other player. What works for some will not work for others. The path taken by one team to a championship will almost certainly not follow that of another.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I strongly disagree. This team is really only a solid goalie and top 4 D man from being a possible contender. Sometimes the best thing is to stop shuffling the chairs and let the core work through it together and learn.

They’ve had ample opportunity to do that

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They’ve had ample opportunity to do that

Maybe sometimes it takes a while.

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[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They’ve had ample opportunity to do that

So did many teams that took time, like the Washington Capitals. Only one team goes deep and wins the Cup, many times it is a team nobody suspects or overachieves. You want to tear it down and rebuild again, how has that worked out for teams like the Florida Panthers or the Arizona Coyotes? The forward group is deep enough to contend, we just need a few pieces to get there. Now I am in favour of moving Gaudreau if you can make a trade where a piece comes back to help now because I don't think he fits in Ward's system. This team definitely has a window right now to win though.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They’ve had ample opportunity to do that

A substantial portion of the core has been disappointing in the last 2 playoffs.

Two or three of the core have delivered consistently sub-par performances for the last 10 months of regular season and playoff games.

Yep, that’s ample opportunity.

[Harry Lime]

The core of Backlund, Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie and Gio have been around a long time, so I'm not sure what people are talking about that they haven't been given a chance.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They’ve had ample opportunity to do that

They’ve also faced multiple significant roster holes while competing though - including momentum/game destroying bad goaltending alongside horrid depth and large amounts of cap spent on not just underperforming talent but outright anchors that sink lines at a time.

Without high end goaltending, you aren’t winning a playoff round because momentum swings in the playoffs are so important and weak goals provide just that to the opposition. Poor goaltending just isn’t something teams can overcome and it impacts the flow of a game hugely, and during their time in Calgary the core has never had strong goaltending.

I am looking at the Dallas series as a positive step forward for the core. I’m also very aware of Johnny’s contract status though, and above all else that asset has to be managed properly...and am unsure as to what that will look like, or what that should look like.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I strongly disagree. This team is really only a solid goalie and top 4 D man from being a possible contender. Sometimes the best thing is to stop shuffling the chairs and let the core work through it together and learn.

So keep the same core and just add?

I could not disagree more.

The F's absolutely have to have a shake-up......unless you believe that the last 2 playoff series losses were on Smith and/or Talbot, and..............Hamonic.

[timbit]

Point and Kucherov led TB in Even Strength Points in the playoffs.

Mangiapane, Hanifin and Bennett led Flames in ESP In the playoffs.

Hmmm. What’s wrong with that picture?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by timbit

Point and Kucherov led TB in Even Strength Points in the playoffs.

Mangiapane, Hanifin and Bennett led Flames in ESP In the playoffs.

Hmmm. What’s wrong with that picture?

Flames should have drafted Kucherov and Point instead of Tspoon/Granlund and Smith/Hickey?

[FiveSeven]

It's almost like your best players need to be your best players.