2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So you're saying the core was worth building around 3 years ago by moving picks, but the core proved to be bad so now the course of action is to change out a component of that core and not build around them anymore and instead just run with your new core without any support.

Sounds like a very exciting recipe for a 9th place team.

You should really invest in some dimmer switches in your house ... seems like you're stuck in a binary thought process.

If you think you have the horses you add to it and open up a window.

If the horses don't turn out to be as quick as you thought they were you have an option to rebuild completely or tinker with the core in a chemistry standpoint and see if you can find a mix going forward that makes the team better on the ice in an overall sense, but specifically in a chips are down sense.

Not sure why you want to paint hockey executives into a corner where they can't change an opinion, or rethink their building plan based on new information.

Certainly not the way I manage things in my world.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You should really invest in some dimmer switches in your house ... seems like you're stuck in a binary thought process.

If you think you have the horses you add to it and open up a window.

If the horses don't turn out to be as quick as you thought they were you have an option to rebuild completely or tinker with the core in a chemistry standpoint and see if you can find a mix going forward that makes the team better on the ice in an overall sense, but specifically in a chips are down sense.

Not sure why you want to paint hockey executives into a corner where they can't change an opinion, or rethink their building plan based on new information.

Certainly not the way I manage things in my world.

This is great. I'm going to steal this.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You should really invest in some dimmer switches in your house ... seems like you're stuck in a binary thought process.

If you think you have the horses you add to it and open up a window.

If the horses don't turn out to be as quick as you thought they were you have an option to rebuild completely or tinker with the core in a chemistry standpoint and see if you can find a mix going forward that makes the team better on the ice in an overall sense, but specifically in a chips are down sense.

Not sure why you want to paint hockey executives into a corner where they can't change an opinion, or rethink their building plan based on new information.

Certainly not the way I manage things in my world.

You can keep trying to paint me as an extremist if you want with the ditch to ditch/bath water/dimmer switch commentary, but somehow I don't think you'd love it for me to dismiss this as homer garbage.

Coming back with basically the same core group and not pushing in chips to improve them is going to have the team finish very predictably where they have this far.

You're either building or you're selling. Doing neither or both is Calgary Flames hockey.

Trading Dion Phaneuf for a bunch of spare parts is sure to work out THIS time.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by united

Be careful what you wish for in those situations as the Alberta teams are all too familiar!

https://twitter.com/user/status/748238297273610240

https://twitter.com/user/status/8458032483

The answers are in the room!

[Harry Lime]

Flash, I don't know exactly what it is that you are advocating. You want a complete rebuild with more than two core players traded for picks? At what point does the team run out of core players?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You should really invest in some dimmer switches in your house ... seems like you're stuck in a binary thought process.

If you think you have the horses you add to it and open up a window.

If the horses don't turn out to be as quick as you thought they were you have an option to rebuild completely or tinker with the core in a chemistry standpoint and see if you can find a mix going forward that makes the team better on the ice in an overall sense, but specifically in a chips are down sense.

Not sure why you want to paint hockey executives into a corner where they can't change an opinion, or rethink their building plan based on new information.

Certainly not the way I manage things in my world.

I also don't see it as one way or the other as well. I am 100% onboard for a rebuild, and I am 100% onboard for a big change.


The only thing I really don't want to see is a core player being shipped out for futures while trying to sign a FA. I don't think this team will be closer to winning. Let's say the "Sign Taylor Hall, trade Gaudreau for futures - profit!" approach. I would rather find a way to keep both.



Now, if Ward wants to keep playing the top line along the boards, I think they should trade Gaudreau, but for a skilled forward/centre or use the futures to then trade for a skilled forward/centre. Move players out that don't fit they system that Ward wants to implement, and find players that do fit.


I don't think it has to rebuild or bust. This could be the last year that you try to win WITH Gaudreau, or Treliving can definitely make moves to the core to further move the window, or simply start over with a rebuild. Lots of room in the middle.


I still, however, believe that this core CAN win, but it needs to play to its' strengths, and definitely can use another core piece. Not sure how to do that with the cap, and I still think that this team is going to massively miss Brodie.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can keep trying to paint me as an extremist if you want with the ditch to ditch/bath water/dimmer switch commentary, but somehow I don't think you'd love it for me to dismiss this as homer garbage.

Coming back with basically the same core group and not pushing in chips to improve them is going to have the team finish very predictably where they have this far.

You're either building or you're selling. Doing neither or both is Calgary Flames hockey.

Trading Dion Phaneuf for a bunch of spare parts is sure to work out THIS time.

lol. You just complained about being accused of binary thinking, and then provide more evidence of binary thinking. And a quick Phaneuf strawman for good measure.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Ward now talking about Rittich working with a specialist to improve mental focus

Definitely needed. I missed the days of Kipper just going "Eh, oh well" and taking a bored sip from his water bottle. I get that he's a passionate dude but you need your goalies to have ice in their veins instead of fire.

[Tkachukwagon]

Braden Holtby expected to be a UFA as Washington isn’t going to sign him.

https://twitter.com/swhyno/status/13...187178496?s=21

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can keep trying to paint me as an extremist if you want with the ditch to ditch/bath water/dimmer switch commentary, but somehow I don't think you'd love it for me to dismiss this as homer garbage.

Coming back with basically the same core group and not pushing in chips to improve them is going to have the team finish very predictably where they have this far.

You're either building or you're selling. Doing neither or both is Calgary Flames hockey.

Trading Dion Phaneuf for a bunch of spare parts is sure to work out THIS time.

Homer garbage? What about not wanting to trade all our picks is being a homer? I'm advocating changing the core and not standing pat at all. Don't think "homer" fits this conversation in the least.

And not extreme? Have a look at your post that started this. I'll help by bolding the extreme comments.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Imo it's too late now to be worried about picks, it's not going to matter at all.

Might as well spend them all.

In the scheme of things Pelletier is worthless in comparison to whatever success the team would've had in the playoffs as the western champs.

The time to worry about pick expenditure was 3 years ago.

Ship has sailed.

Imo not spending picks at this point when the rest of the organizational posture is win now is a worse crime than spending all the picks up to this point.

80/20 proposition.

Spend the picks necessary to get that last 20%

Oh and nowhere am I suggesting moving a player like Phaneuf for as many average pieces you can get.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by 868904

Blaster: you think the Canucks would go to $3.0 million for Stetcher?

I think anywhere from 2.75 - 3.25 is fair for Tony. Do I think the Canucks pay it? Honestly, depends how the contracts for Toffoli and Markstrom shape. Those are the top two priorities. If they come in on good deals? Definitely. If they're abit high? I think Stech is a sacrifice that has to be made and we go on the cheap with young guys to see what we have.


Edit- There is a misconception that you can build for the future while going all in now. It doesn't work by trading assets. If the goal is to win a Cup then you build for the future by drafting well with what you get. That's what made Detroit so formidable in the 90s and 2000s. They made their high and late round draft picks work. Any futures you trade Gaudreau for will only help the team after the current window is shut, especially if they're picks. If you are signing Hall to try and keep a window open, you move Gaudreau or Monahan in a hockey deal to fill another weakness.

Edit - Hah, Bingo doesn't know how to use his own forum. Loser!
Edit 2- Booo! Leave your mistake for the world to see, you coward!

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Definitely needed. I missed the days of Kipper just going "Eh, oh well" and taking a bored sip from his water bottle. I get that he's a passionate dude but you need your goalies to have ice in their veins instead of fire.

Ward pretty much in a polite way said Rittich is not the answer any time soon.

He said he needed to develop more, be better consistently and then the mental stuff.

I dont think Rittich has a future with Ward. It sounds like he wants a more veteran option in net.

[dino7c]

Pretty obvious Rittich isn't the guy

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Flash, I don't know exactly what it is that you are advocating. You want a complete rebuild with more than two core players traded for picks? At what point does the team run out of core players?

I'm saying, pick a direction and go with it. The flames direction for the last 5 years has been to trade an extraordinary amount of picks away to be a mediocre-to-bad team.

Stopping now is a complete and utter waste of the last 5 years.

Everyone and their mother on this board knows the flames don't have it in them so things properly, so holding onto 2nd round picks so in 5 years the flames have another rasmus Andersson when the core group is all gone anyway is pretty much worthless if it means the Flames team of next season gets routed out of the building in a first round sweep.

The flames have moved entire drafts worth of picks in the last several years.

Either this core group is worth adding to or it isn't. Bingo is saying the core group isn't good enough and isn't worth building around, but his fix is that the group just needs a tweak of chemistry.

We've seen that before.

Dithering around is what has them where they are. Either spend the picks on players that actually improve the team or commit to not spending the picks and acquire more of them.

Trading a 1st round pick for tanguay and then a first round pick for Mike cammalleri is not going to 'change the chemistry' enough to account for the major structural issues that plague the team, and just like the failed 'rebuild' we are living through now, half assing your way through it isn't going to deliver results.

If you need any proof of that just look at the freaking history of this team.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and a you can bet your house that a team that has sucked as bad and as long as the flames have who keep doing exactly what bingo is advocating is on one side of that coin.

Call it binary if you want but this is a binary league. You either win or you lose, and only in the Calgary market is being better than Edmonton a win.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm saying, pick a direction and go with it.

Yes, but there's more options than the two you stand by of 'stay the course' or 'scorched earth'.

Thus, the conversation is starting to become akin to a being of the 3rd dimension trying to explain things to a being of the 2nd dimension

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Yes, but there's more options than the two you stand by of 'stay the course' or 'scorched earth'.

Thus, the conversation is starting to become akin to a being of the 3rd dimension trying to explain things to a being of the 2nd dimension

The only two that apply to the flames are those two options because of the decisions they have made up to this point.

The reason scorched earth is necessary is because off the boom and bust cycle the flames have employed for 20 years.

If you're the St Louis blues you don't need to go scorched earth.

When you're making the least amount of picks in the entire league over a 5 year period you absolutely have to go scorched earth.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Pretty obvious Rittich isn't the guy

I don't think he's the guy you go with as your de facto starter for this season, but if possible I would like to hang onto him. Rittich has always had great tools, his struggles have been the mental side of the game and running into injuries. He needs to be able to ride the highs and the lows of a season.

Hearing that he is working with a sports therapist is great news. I would gladly welcome Rittich back with another goalie. In a shortened season, a tandem is going to be even more important than it already was.

It's not that unusual for a goalie to put everything together late in the their 20's. Kuemper, Markstrom, Dubnyk, Talbot, Kipper, etc.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

So, apparently a Toffoli signing should be happening any day now. Also rumours that Markstrom won't be far behind.

Sounds like Stecher and Virtanen are both going to hit UFA though.

If the Canucks are re-signing Markstrom, does that mean Demko the Golden Knight Killer is available?

[Jiri Hrdina]

If the Flames are truly interested in Kuemper, I can see BSD being part of the package that goes the other way. Would give them a guy that can play some #1 minutes, and at an affordable rate, and as a younger option with some long-term potential still there.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The only two that apply to the flames are those two options because of the decisions they have made up to this point.

The reason scorched earth is necessary is because off the boom and bust cycle the flames have employed for 20 years.

If you're the St Louis blues you don't need to go scorched earth.

When you're making the least amount of picks in the entire league over a 5 year period you absolutely have to go scorched earth.

You literally make no sense. Not even figuratively. Just none.