2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0 - Page 263 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

ComixZone · 09-09-2020, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdubz

Would really hate it if the Flames wasted a 1st on a goalie. Goaltending isn't our issue, as seen in the Playoffs and the majority of the regular season.

Talbot fell apart in the elimination game and let in a soft goal in 2 of the other 4 games.

Goaltending absolutely needs to be improved.

...the cost being a 1st is rough, but Kuemper is as close to a sure thing as there is out there right now. He’s a top 10 goalie in this league.

Icon · 09-09-2020, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdubz

Would really hate it if the Flames wasted a 1st on a goalie. Goaltending isn't our issue, as seen in the Playoffs and the majority of the regular season.

If Talbot's testing free agency and decides to go elsewhere, then Rittich and ??? maybe will be an issue?

I hate the idea of trading a 1st for a goalie unless it's a sure thing. But we can't seem to develop any (ever?) either.

Ideally Treliving works some magic and gets a deal done but lets us still restock the cupboards some at the same time.

ForeverFlameFan · 09-09-2020, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Talbot fell apart in the elimination game and let in a soft goal in 2 of the other 4 games.

Goaltending absolutely needs to be improved.

...the cost being a 1st is rough, but Kuemper is as close to a sure thing as there is out there right now. He’s a top 10 goalie in this league.

When he's healthy.

We're going to be seeing a lot of Gilllies/Big Z as backup if Kuemper is indeed acquired. I've watched a lot of Coyotes games and Kuemper is exactly what the Flames need. The problem? He's injury prone. I don't know why but he and Raanta switch off getting injured.

Roof-Daddy · 09-09-2020, 03:51 PM

I swear to #### if they trade 19th OA for a 30 year old goalie with only 2 years on his deal and only a season and a half of being a proven top goalie I'll snap.

5 years from now we'll be watching some 22/23 year old lighting the league up for Arizona and go "where'd he come from....oh yeah they drafted him in round 1 in 2020 with the pick we traded for Kuemper"

Meanwhile 35 year old Kuemper will be long gone into the sunset like a fart in the wind and the Flames probably still won't have made it out of the 1st round.

Trading 1st round picks for old players is IDIOTIC.

TheScorpion · 09-09-2020, 03:51 PM

Kuemper is a real top-tier goalie who would be the perfect stopgap until Wolf is ready. I don't think it would involve the first at all... that would be incredibly stupid.

Kuemper played for Bruce Boudreau in Minnesota, by the way.

It would have to be a very perfect deal to get OEL. But my gut is that the Flames and Coyotes have been talking non-stop since they were both eliminated in the first round.

I think a complicated deal with the two teams makes a lot of sense.

Bonded · 09-09-2020, 03:51 PM

Don't know if I would love spending a first on Kuemper.

1qqaaz · 09-09-2020, 03:52 PM

I would much rather offer Jakob Pelletier than a first round pick. But since Kuemper only has a year left, I don't think he even justifies that.

I like Kuemper, he's a good goalie, but he has only once played more than 40 games in a season (mostly due to injuries). His career stats are much better than Markstrom's, who is the same age.

FlamesAddiction · 09-09-2020, 03:53 PM

I just think you need to be careful with a goalie who is 30 and only has one season where they played more than half of their team's games. At least if you are looking for a legit #1.

I would be willing to give him a chance, but not if it costs a lot to get him.

bax · 09-09-2020, 03:54 PM

I can't imagine it would just be a 1st for Kuemper. Like Scorp said I could see a big complicated deal.

Icon · 09-09-2020, 03:57 PM

If it's Kuemper for a 1st straight up, completely agree, 100% - pass.

If it's Kuemper & 2021 2nd for the 2020 1st, getting alot warmer

Or who knows, could be Kuemper, OEL, Hayton for 1st, Gio, Ryan
... point is all the rumor is is that there's interest and the 1st may be part of the trade

TheScorpion · 09-09-2020, 04:00 PM

I don't think Hayton would be part of it... I get he was a Chayka pick but teams don't part with top-5 guys easily regardless of who picked them.

I could see Victor Soderstrom or Jan Jenik MAYBE being on the table.

Icon · 09-09-2020, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't think Hayton would be part of it... I get he was a Chayka pick but teams don't part with top-5 guys easily regardless of who picked them.

I could see Victor Soderstrom or Jan Jenik MAYBE being on the table.

Was just a prospect of theirs that I could think of off the top of my head, just pointing out there's quite possibly/likely other pieces of the puzzle to factor in to the reaction to "omg a first?"

TheScorpion · 09-09-2020, 04:04 PM

Yup I think there's a lot of merit to that thinking, especially given that I think the Coyotes will be looking a lot further afield with their retool strategy. Flames are probably looking for guys who are ready to step in next year or the year after.

SuperMatt18 · 09-09-2020, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If the rumours are true and Hall has his sites of free agency with Calgary being possible destination, I can't see his rights being more more than a conditional pick (maybe a 2021 3rd rounder if he signs before free agency).

I think OEL has negative value. His contract is abhorrent IMO, and it would also push Brodie out the door, so there is an opportunity cost there if you still want to re-sign Brodie. So from a Flames perspective, you would have to look at the trade as having Brodie out as part of it.

I'm also not sold on Kuemper. He had a great season, but was statistically on par with Raanta. It leads me to believe his success may more of a team result than individual. I would rather roll the dice with Talbot again if Kuemper was going to cost anything more than a 2nd rounder.

Arizona's goalies do have great numbers though and I don't think that's system. I think the two goalies have been what has kept Arizona competitive the last couple seasons.

Here are the top 5 goalies in goals saved above average over the last three seasons:

Vasilevskiy: 53.6
Hellebuyck: 51.6
Bishop: 51.4
Kuemper: 47.0
Raanta: 36.1

Here are the top goalies in Save percentage over the last three seasons:

1st: Raanta - .924
1st: Kuemper - .924
3rd: Bishop - .923
4th: Khudobin - .922
5th: Vasilevskiy: .921
6th: Hellebuyck: .919

When you look at the more detailed save percentage breakdown this is where Kuemper sits (2000 minutes or more)

HDSV%: .841 (6th)
MDSV%: .916 (15th)
LDSV%: .969 (14th)

And here is Raanta:

HDSV%: .819 (27th)
MDSV%: .934 (1st)
LDSV%: .977 (3rd)

Really though either way these goalies are still seeing more pucks than the Flames goalies even with system considered.

Rittich

High Danger Shots per 60: 7.71
Medium Danger Shots per 60: 8.6
Low Danger Shots per 60: 12.75
Total Shots Against per 60: 30.6

Raanta

High Danger Shots per 60: 8.77
Medium Danger Shots per 60: 7.82
Low Danger Shots per 60: 14.35
Total Shots Against per 60: 32.5

Kuemper

High Danger Shots per 60: 7.99
Medium Danger Shots per 60: 7.77
Low Danger Shots per 60: 13.48
Total Shots Against per 60: 31.0

With that being considered though I'm still against sending anything more than a 2nd to the Coyotes, and really I don't want to spend anymore draft capital on a goalie.

The asking price they probably have for Kuemper scares the crap out of me and I want nothing to do with moving a 1st for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I swear to #### if they trade 19th OA for a 30 year old goalie with only 2 years on his deal and only a season and a half of being a proven top goalie I'll snap.

5 years from now we'll be watching some 22/23 year old lighting the league up for Arizona and go "where'd he come from....oh yeah they drafted him in round 1 in 2020 with the pick we traded for Kuemper"

Meanwhile 35 year old Kuemper will be long gone into the sunset like a fart in the wind and the Flames probably still won't have made it out of the 1st round.

Trading 1st round picks for old players is IDIOTIC.

THIS

Icon · 09-09-2020, 04:10 PM

So since the yotes are hurting for draft picks in the next couple years, it's feasible to think they'd maybe be interested in quantity over quality... From the Flames perspective, would you rather:

a) Kuemper for the 2020 1st
b) Kuemper for the 2020 2nd & 2021 2nd

I don't think (a) is likely the full trade as per above, but just curious what people value more as far as one pick at 19, or two picks in the ~40-60s over a couple years.

TheScorpion · 09-09-2020, 04:13 PM

I would rather neither. But I'd rather make a pick in the first round.

Roof-Daddy · 09-09-2020, 04:18 PM

The Flames could get a prospect like Tristan Robins in the 2nd round, who's being sort of compared to the likes of Brayden Point possibly.

I am officially scared of this off season now.

Monahammer · 09-09-2020, 04:19 PM

I posted this days ago but I would still be on board for a trade structured like this:

OEL + Kuemper + Hall's rights for 1st 2019 + Giordano + Derek Ryan

IMO this makes stomaching the loss of the 1st easier we make Gio into a younger player, dump some salary in Ryan, and fix our gaping hole in net.

Also gives us plenty of runway to work a johnny trade and recoup a 1st.

FlamesAddiction · 09-09-2020, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would rather neither. But I'd rather make a pick in the first round.

Yeah, I don't think the is the year to trade a 1st rounder.

With the draft being really deep (apparently, I just go by what people on here have said), the uncertainty next season (an off chance the season doesn't even get played), and the fact we have only drafted in the 1st round 3 of the passed 5 years, I think we should hold onto it.

Monahammer · 09-09-2020, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If you are trading Gaudreau and Monahan for picks and prospects you are taking a team that really only needs a good coach and maybe one more piece to be a contender and flushing it down the drain. You better move Gio as well and you can forget about handing Tkachuk the C as he will bolt as soon as his contract is up as he believes in this group and you will be sending him the totally wrong message. You won't be landing a Hall if that is your thinking as he wants to play for a team looking to win, not tank. The best play the Flames can make here is to bring in a good coach and maybe another piece or two depending on cap space. This is a team that is built to win now and can but you need the right conductor to drive the engine.

Do you just copy and paste the same statements into all of your posts?