so we've got Honey Bunny and Changelings so far and we know that Lore is going to roll up to the party as well. any other new or recurring villains want to join this season too, just to make it even more zany? how about Armus piloting a stolen shuttle craft with his black gooey hands? or the Crystalline Entity's kids putting on Starfleet uniforms to blend in so they could hoover up the old cast in revenge?
my understanding is that S2 suffered from a severe bout of ADHD, I desperately don't want the same to happen here but there are some warning signs early on.
+10 for the kids of crystalline entity in starfleet. No doubt if Picard s4 were envisioned, this would be included.
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so we've got Honey Bunny and Changelings so far and we know that Lore is going to roll up to the party as well. any other new or recurring villains want to join this season too, just to make it even more zany? how about Armus piloting a stolen shuttle craft with his black gooey hands? or the Crystalline Entity's kids putting on Starfleet uniforms to blend in so they could hoover up the old cast in revenge?
my understanding is that S2 suffered from a severe bout of ADHD, I desperately don't want the same to happen here but there are some warning signs early on.
Spoiler!
Moriarty features prominently in the trailers. My guess is the the Changlings stole and reactivated Lore from the Daystrom institute and somehow Lore's aging protocol kept aging since then to keep up with Brent Spiner - I kind of wish they could just deepfake Lore as young Spiner. The crew needs to defeat Lore and without Data/B4, they turn to Moriarty for help since we had the plot hole of the Ent-D computer being asked to create an opponent who could defeat Data and somehow a pedantic ship's computer created an AI that is more powerful than a Noonian Android. I know this sounds stupid but 6 year old me is excited?
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 03-03-2023 at 02:11 PM.
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You know, you could have asked the actor to not do an accent that makes it sound like he's a character that just stepped out of a Victorian-era Dickensian novel?
But if you're going to have him speak like a Victorian London street-urchin then just let him do it and leave it at that.
Ugh there was just so much cringe in that episode.
And the thing is...explaining things away here and there or inventing what surely promises to be a tepid payoff a few episodes down the road doesnt make it any better.
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Jack is the oldest 20 year old in Alpha Quadrant. but they made sure to do the whole 17 second turbolift sequence for Picard to get to his son, exactly how Riker described 20 minutes earlier, to make sure we didn't forget the perfect parallel experience
they still have me suckered in because of the cliffhanger though. I haven't yet fallen asleep during an episode the way I did with S1 or Disco so that's an improvement.
You know, you could have asked the actor to not do an accent that makes it sound like he's a character that just stepped out of a Victorian-era Dickensian novel?
But if you're going to have him speak like a Victorian London street-urchin then just let him do it and leave it at that.
Ugh there was just so much cringe in that episode.
And the thing is...explaining things away here and there or inventing what surely promises to be a tepid payoff a few episodes down the road doesnt make it any better.
Its interesting to me how you and Monahammer are really bothered by this series while I'm giddy for it. And I'm the guy that my fellow 6th grade elementary school nerds called "The Critic" for criticizing everything during the height of TNG.
I have nothing but a deep loathing hatred for Seasons 1 and 2 and mostly agreed with all the haters in the Youtube community (RLM, Critical Drinker, Dave Cullen) who were super dour on the horribleness of Trek since Discovery and Picard s1&s2.
I think what changed my mind is many of those reviewers were given a preview of 6 episodes (or some all of the series) and they have gone out of their way to make videos explaining that this season is actually very good and a real homecoming for TNG by the end.
That gives me hope and optimism for a childhood franchise which I've expected nothing but terribleness from for the last 2 years.
I agree there's lot of cringe and I especially hate nu-Trek's propensity of having all main characters arguing/insulting each other on the bridge and then cutting to shots of the junior crew looking at each other like "wtf are we supposed to do now". Star Trek is about the best of the best, doing their best jobs out there in a professional navy.
TNG was always the gold standard of keeping decorum and respect and ensuring the crew feels confident in their leadership. Nu-Trek (including this series) does not get this at all since the new mantra of new television seems to be to create tension by having interpersonal conflict all the time. Nu-Trek would be like walking into your company seeing your CEO and CFO having a throw down about how the ship is sinking (every day) and you wondering if you'd have the job by next week.
Roddenberry's rule was no interpersonal conflict in the crew and hence they always had to work together against external forces. This is the thing that is most sorely lacking and makes these new series not feel like Trek.
This always gets posted but I just don't why the new writers/producers don't get this basic fundamental part of Star Trek.
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Jack is the oldest 20 year old in Alpha Quadrant. but they made sure to do the whole 17 second turbolift sequence for Picard to get to his son, exactly how Riker described 20 minutes earlier, to make sure we didn't forget the perfect parallel experience
.
I actually hate episodes directed by Frakes, I think he doesn't have a good directors touch. All episodes of nu-Trek he has gone along with have left a bad taste in my mouth. First Contact was highly overrated as well.
Picard staring in the Turbolift should have been a scene of him realizing how much Jack meant and running through the hallways a la lonely and desperate Kirk rushing down to engineering after hearing what happened to Spock.
There really should be no reason for Lore to show up or be considered a weapon. Like what is he going to do? I hope people are wrong about Lore making an appearance as some kind of super weapon. What a lost opportunity though to have this tie back into the Burn.
Its interesting to me how you and Monahammer are really bothered by this series while I'm giddy for it. And I'm the guy that my fellow 6th grade elementary school nerds called "The Critic" for criticizing everything during the height of TNG.
I have nothing but a deep loathing hatred for Seasons 1 and 2 and mostly agreed with all the haters in the Youtube community (RLM, Critical Drinker, Dave Cullen) who were super dour on the horribleness of Trek since Discovery and Picard s1&s2.
I think what changed my mind is many of those reviewers were given a preview of 6 episodes (or some all of the series) and they have gone out of their way to make videos explaining that this season is actually very good and a real homecoming for TNG by the end.
That gives me hope and optimism for a childhood franchise which I've expected nothing but terribleness from for the last 2 years.
I agree there's lot of cringe and I especially hate nu-Trek's propensity of having all main characters arguing/insulting each other on the bridge and then cutting to shots of the junior crew looking at each other like "wtf are we supposed to do now". Star Trek is about the best of the best, doing their best jobs out there in a professional navy.
TNG was always the gold standard of keeping decorum and respect and ensuring the crew feels confident in their leadership. Nu-Trek (including this series) does not get this at all since the new mantra of new television seems to be to create tension by having interpersonal conflict all the time. Nu-Trek would be like walking into your company seeing your CEO and CFO having a throw down about how the ship is sinking (every day) and you wondering if you'd have the job by next week.
Roddenberry's rule was no interpersonal conflict in the crew and hence they always had to work together against external forces. This is the thing that is most sorely lacking and makes these new series not feel like Trek.
This always gets posted but I just don't why the new writers/producers don't get this basic fundamental part of Star Trek.
I think that people forget that if Gene had its way Star Trek would have been tremendously boring with everyone getting along and every second episode would have been about preventing then having Spoke be the Kennedy assassin.
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I think that people forget that if Gene had its way Star Trek would have been tremendously boring with everyone getting along and every second episode would have been about preventing then having Spoke be the Kennedy assassin.
And running into a space-god every 3rd episode while wearing their space PJs and objectifying women. Yes Roddenberry was very imperfect but sometimes he had good ideas.
I'll throw another curve-ball if this show wants to be zany. Captain Riker is not Captain Riker but actually Thomas Riker who was broken out of his life imprisonment in the Cardassian penal colony by the Gamma quadrant renegades. After he got out, he had the classic out of prison experience and gorged himself at the replicator.
I'll throw another curve-ball if this show wants to be zany. Captain Riker is not Captain Riker but actually Thomas Riker who was broken out of his life imprisonment in the Cardassian penal colony by the Gamma quadrant renegades. After he got out, he had the classic out of prison experience and gorged himself at the replicator.
It could be that. Could be a changeling. They definitely seem to be doing a best of who's who of TNG-era (which includes DS9 and VOY) villains already, so what's Thomas Riker added to this. The only way any of where we are currently at makes sense is if someone who was part of the plan from the very start was not who they seemed.
It's very clearly not Will, or very clearly the writing team ####ed it once again.
Enterprise ending pissed me off. Yes it took awhile to find it's legs and figure out an identity other than "Tee hee, we snuck in this alien that humanity doesn't officially meet for several hundred years". But season 4 was excellent and they axed it just as it hit it's stride. The fact that Discovery is getting one more season than Enterprise is a travesty
Though Enterprise had "real" seasons with over 20 episodes each, not these puny streaming service seasons with 10-15 episodes.
I'll throw another curve-ball if this show wants to be zany. Captain Riker is not Captain Riker but actually Thomas Riker who was broken out of his life imprisonment in the Cardassian penal colony by the Gamma quadrant renegades. After he got out, he had the classic out of prison experience and gorged himself at the replicator.
As one does, but frankly, either Riker could be considered guilty of that.
That being said, if its Tom Riker all along I will laugh for days. I didnt even consider that as a batcrap twist, but why not? Get it in there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster86
It could be that. Could be a changeling. They definitely seem to be doing a best of who's who of TNG-era (which includes DS9 and VOY) villains already, so what's Thomas Riker added to this. The only way any of where we are currently at makes sense is if someone who was part of the plan from the very start was not who they seemed.
It's very clearly not Will, or very clearly the writing team ####ed it once again.
Could go either way really.
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I'm liking what I've seen so far from S3. By the looks of the comments so far, I'm in an incredibly small minority.
I've loved it. I also see there is potential for it to go super far off the rails. The writer's are not getting a lot of rope from people after season 2 which also started out gang buster's.
Edit - a fun thing about Worf"s introduction is that it seems his time as ambassador to the Klingon empire may have also helped him appreciate his human upbringing more as he added Sergei to it.
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Last edited by Blaster86; 03-03-2023 at 05:34 PM.
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Its interesting to me how you and Monahammer are really bothered by this series while I'm giddy for it. And I'm the guy that my fellow 6th grade elementary school nerds called "The Critic" for criticizing everything during the height of TNG.
I have nothing but a deep loathing hatred for Seasons 1 and 2 and mostly agreed with all the haters in the Youtube community (RLM, Critical Drinker, Dave Cullen) who were super dour on the horribleness of Trek since Discovery and Picard s1&s2.
I think what changed my mind is many of those reviewers were given a preview of 6 episodes (or some all of the series) and they have gone out of their way to make videos explaining that this season is actually very good and a real homecoming for TNG by the end.
That gives me hope and optimism for a childhood franchise which I've expected nothing but terribleness from for the last 2 years.
I agree there's lot of cringe and I especially hate nu-Trek's propensity of having all main characters arguing/insulting each other on the bridge and then cutting to shots of the junior crew looking at each other like "wtf are we supposed to do now". Star Trek is about the best of the best, doing their best jobs out there in a professional navy.
TNG was always the gold standard of keeping decorum and respect and ensuring the crew feels confident in their leadership. Nu-Trek (including this series) does not get this at all since the new mantra of new television seems to be to create tension by having interpersonal conflict all the time. Nu-Trek would be like walking into your company seeing your CEO and CFO having a throw down about how the ship is sinking (every day) and you wondering if you'd have the job by next week.
Roddenberry's rule was no interpersonal conflict in the crew and hence they always had to work together against external forces. This is the thing that is most sorely lacking and makes these new series not feel like Trek.
This always gets posted but I just don't why the new writers/producers don't get this basic fundamental part of Star Trek.
Okay, a few things.
Yes I am heavily critical, I'm that way of all of Star Trek for the most part, partly because it is supposed to be this wonderful vision and as a show it does have a preposterous, campy element to it.
Whining about Star Trek is almost as good as being rewarded with quality Star Trek because, and lets be honest, a good big chunk of Star Trek is godawful.
What makes you a fan is liking most of it anyways, especially for the parts that you do enjoy.
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
But if its bad, I'm going to call a spade a spade.
Picard has been bad so far. Seasons 1 and 2...lets be honest. What makes me more critical, and I wouldnt say 'bothered' but I suppose it may fit, is that I just dont like what they're doing or how they're going about doing it.
Picard is a robot.
Think about that for a minute.
Really...is there a reason for that? Well yes, because being a robot has cured his Space Dementia. Is there a reason for that? They wrote it in, either because they wanted to make him a robot...which is dumb. Or because they thought they were going to come back around to it, got lost and then had to resolve space dementia somehow.
"Crap. Forgot about Space Dementia. F' it. Make him a robot. Yes...the rubes buy that..."
Season 2 had a ton of promise and I cant recall seeing a season of TV hit the skids in what was, if we're honest, a pretty impressive derailment.
They're borrowing heavily from almost all of the movies which could be okay if they just werent so ham-fisted about it. We wanted to see our favourite characters again which we're getting, but they are a bajillion years old and frankly, I dont much care for the Universe that they live in.
Starfleet sucks now. Its bad now.
You have this long, generational, noble tradition with all of these great Captains and Officers who explored the galaxy and the whole thing has turned into a bickering bureaucracy. Nobody cares about anything but their careers now. Which...when you're not getting paid, really seems like it shouldnt be the ultimate focus.
They're supposed to be doing these things for the sake of the betterment of society....and they're not. All they seem to care about is themselves and their careers and not getting in trouble so they're overlooked for promotion.
Is that really the ultimate result of the work and sacrifice of people like Picard, Kirk, Sisko, Spock, Janeway, etc? They sacrificed so much to build a crappy Galactic Bureaucracy?
Its not even just that they're not this Elite Spacefaring Exploration Organization anymore, its that it seems like they plundered the inmates of a mental asylum, put them in pajamas and plunked them on starships to watch them squabble with each other. In Space.
I will be critical, but that doesnt mean I hate it, necessarily. I do actually loathe Discovery. I didnt even 'hate' Enterprise which was, up till now, the weakest of all Trek offerings.
And in this series right now the only character that actually seems 'in character' and interesting is Worf!
Worf!
Let that sink in!
That alone should be setting off alarm bells that a show is in dangerous territory.
Wow. That was quite a rant. How to finish this off?
Hmmm...oh yeah, and Roddenberry was a coke-addled lunatic. And thats not an opinion. But coke-addled lunatics can still do some great stuff.
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