Star Wars

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Jar Jar Binks doomed the Republic and aided the rise of Palpatine


/discussion.

Jar Jar literally sold the Galaxy out to the most Evil individual. He was just the worst.

Frankly, any society that would allow that clown to sit in any position of elected power deserves what they get.

Yeah Queen Amidala....that sodden clownshoes lunatic that you dredged up from the bottom of a pond somewhere completely doomed the entire Galaxy.

Solid job. Great Political work there. Way to vet your candidates. Jar Jar shouldnt be elected to run a Banana Stand let alone represent his people.

[blankall]

For me the obvious low points in the series are the Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi. One is vomit and the other is feces. Which would you rather eat? The obvious answer is vomit. So the argument just comes down to which one is the vomit or the feces.

I'd put Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens on similar levels of mediocrity to each other. Rise of Skywalker and Attack of the Clones were both hopeless patch jobs doing their best to pick up the pieces from the respective disasters that proceeded them.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Locke

Jar Jar literally sold the Galaxy out to the most Evil individual. He was just the worst.

Frankly, any society that would allow that clown to sit in any position of elected power deserves what they get.

Yeah Queen Amidala....that sodden clownshoes lunatic that you dredged up from the bottom of a pond somewhere completely doomed the entire Galaxy.

Solid job. Great Political work there. Way to vet your candidates. Jar Jar shouldnt be elected to run a Banana Stand let alone represent his people.

Let's not forget about the blatant, and even for it's time, dated ethnic caricatures:

The Asian business people:



Black minstrel:



And, of course, the Jewish/Middle Eastern trader:



Seriously, it's like watching a 1950s Disney animated film. It's actually pretty amazing, as Lucas clearly was trying to be more inclusive by having strong female and minority characters in the movie. It's almost as though his subconscious couldn't help but jam these awful concepts into his film.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Jar Jar literally sold the Galaxy out to the most Evil individual. He was just the worst.

Frankly, any society that would allow that clown to sit in any position of elected power deserves what they get.

Yeah Queen Amidala....that sodden clownshoes lunatic that you dredged up from the bottom of a pond somewhere completely doomed the entire Galaxy.

Solid job. Great Political work there. Way to vet your candidates. Jar Jar shouldnt be elected to run a Banana Stand let alone represent his people.

Kind of justifies why the republic fell doesn't it. You mean this idiot is a senator? Really?


Long live despotism.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by blankall

Let's not forget about the blatant, and even for it's time, dated ethnic caricatures:

The Asian business people:



Black minstrel:



And, of course, the Jewish/Middle Eastern trader:



Seriously, it's like watching a 1950s Disney animated film. It's actually pretty amazing, as Lucas clearly was trying to be more inclusive by having strong female and minority characters in the movie. It's almost as though his subconscious couldn't help but jam these awful concepts into his film.

Except Disney hasn’t put a woke racist warning at the beginning of the prequels. Yet.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Except Disney hasn’t put a woke racist warning at the beginning of the prequels. Yet.

Lol.

I wonder if they'll try to explain it away by writing Lucas off as an old relic. I'll hopefully never have to watch the Phantom Menace again, so will never know the answer.

[Duruss]

Originally Posted by Locke

Jar Jar literally sold the Galaxy out to the most Evil individual. He was just the worst.

Frankly, any society that would allow that clown to sit in any position of elected power deserves what they get.

Yeah Queen Amidala....that sodden clownshoes lunatic that you dredged up from the bottom of a pond somewhere completely doomed the entire Galaxy.

Solid job. Great Political work there. Way to vet your candidates. Jar Jar shouldnt be elected to run a Banana Stand let alone represent his people.

Jar Jar is the ultimate useful idiot in all of Star Wars. From his very inception to his end I mean sure if he had died back on Naboo the Sith still would have risen, but he just handed it to them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Palpatine was the master manipulator. He played everyone while at the same time fighting a war on two sides to set up the ultimate Jedi Trap.


Jar Jar never saw the Sith train coming, he probably had to live out his life, knowing not only did he end democracy in the galaxy, but to an extent his actions lead to the deaths of Padme, and Anakin (Since everyone assumed he'd died in the Jedi Temple assualt).


He probably couldn't return home to Naboo, since the Empire pretty much went after all of the Senators but also pretty much enslaved Naboo and the Gungans weren't human so they were probably sent to a labor camp.


Even George probably realized that Jar Jar didn't work, and his actions in the second movie and 2 seconds in the third movie were like a stark apology.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by blankall

For me the obvious low points in the series are the Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi. One is vomit and the other is feces. Which would you rather eat? The obvious answer is vomit. So the argument just comes down to which one is the vomit or the feces.

I'd put Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens on similar levels of mediocrity to each other. Rise of Skywalker and Attack of the Clones were both hopeless patch jobs doing their best to pick up the pieces from the respective disasters that proceeded them.

Mostly agree, but I think The Force Awakens would be considered more then mediocre at the time for me. If The Last Jedi ended up being a masterpiece, I think The Force Awakens would have gone done as a solid foundation of the next trilogy. Instead it is harmed by the existence of the others as we get The Last Jedi pooping on The Force Awakens ending with Luke, we never get answers to why Maz Kanata had Luke's sabre and why it called out to Rey, we find out that Rey was some Palpatine after finding out she was no one, we get in some shoehorned love interests for Finn that disappears, etc. etc. But those were faults with the next movies, not necessarily The Force Awakens.

Also The Last Jedi was vomit which was ate, pooped out, ate again, and then thrown up.

[CaptainCrunch]

In the end JJ Abrahms and KK are at fault for the mess that is the sequel trilogy. He either finished TFA without any kind of over lying storyline. Or they hired a hack director who threw the story out to do his own thing and failed badly.



In the end ROS was basically a bandage to just end the trilogy with a massive piece of failed fan service that fell flat as an apology and enticement.


I did rewatch ROS a couple of weeks ago when I was sick, and to me it just doesn't work. Its pretty to look at for sure, but the story and writing overarching effect on the GFFA was terrible.


I didn't like much of TPM, but the Palpatine parts were so well done and the rise of Sidious in that movie. AOTC had these moments in it, but overall it didn't fuse together. But I loved ROTS.


TFA was decent, but a bit underwhelming in parts, but it just feel apart when they hired Rian.

[CroFlames]

TFA felt great at first because you felt like the possibilities would be endless with how the story could go. Each subsequent movie retroactively made TFA worse. TLJ is just so bad I don't even know what to say anymore. I've often said it's like if they brought in a new director for The Two Towers and the Ring was suddenly unimportant and the movie made no mention of it and Frodo was just on a vacation in Lorien and Sam went to some Casino city with unsavory folks.

The prequels, for all their warts, had three things going for them.

Firstly, an overarching story that made sense. The rise and fall of Anakin.

Secondly, the introduction of Obi Wan and his heroics in the war, as well as a deeper look at the Jedi that fans crave.

Lastly, the utter brilliance of Palpatines schemes (and the actor's performance as well).

I'll go on to add that the final battle between Obi Wan and Anakin was singularly one of the best scenes in all nine films and other canon content.

[Inglewood Jack]

yeah from 2015 to 2017 I re-watched TFA a few times and enjoyed it, retreads/warts and all. it had a fresh energy similar to Star Trek 2009 (guess that should have been my first clue).

TLJ was like Game of Thrones season 8 where it time travelled backwards and murdered any desire to see the older material ever again.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

TFA felt great at first because you felt like the possibilities would be endless with how the story could go. Each subsequent movie retroactively made TFA worse. TLJ is just so bad I don't even know what to say anymore. I've often said it's like if they brought in a new director for The Two Towers and the Ring was suddenly unimportant and the movie made no mention of it and Frodo was just on a vacation in Lorien and Sam went to some Casino city with unsavory folks.

The prequels, for all their warts, had three things going for them.

Firstly, an overarching story that made sense. The rise and fall of Anakin.

Secondly, the introduction of Obi Wan and his heroics in the war, as well as a deeper look at the Jedi that fans crave.

Lastly, the utter brilliance of Palpatines schemes (and the actor's performance as well).

I'll go on to add that the final battle between Obi Wan and Anakin was singularly one of the best scenes in all nine films and other canon content.

I've never said there weren't warts in the PT. The overarching story itself is very good.

It was the dialogue choices, and even some of the actor choices. I love Portman, she's a great actress, but I think this role was wrong for her in the end. Hayden can act, but the dialogue killed him half the time.

On the other side, Ewan was born for that role. Ian was brilliant especially in the Opera house.

I loved the concept of the Clone Wars, and how it rolled out that the Clones were the ultimate Jedi Trap/betrayal.

Its sad that more of the books didn't get into the movies. The seduction of Anakin by Palpatine was so well done in the books.

[Locke]

Heres one of the things about the Prequel Trilogy.

It was a gigantic jumbled mess of CGI, Galactic economics, etc. We could go into it all and do a deep dive, but it really isnt necessary.

They had unlimited funds, unlimited resources, talented actors, access to any screenwriters they wanted, hell, the sky was the limit. And thats the garbage they punted out.

You know whats infuriating about the New Trilogy? They had unlimited funds, unlimited resources, talented actors, access to any screenwriters they wanted, hell, the sky was the limit. And thats the garbage they punted out.

There are few things that aggravate me more than wasted potential due to sheer incompetence.

[Inglewood Jack]

You can have all the resources that Hollywood can afford, but if your director or writer (or unholy union of the two roles in one person) suck, then the whole thing is toast. The only thing that’s comparably destructive to a movie is multiple reshoots with a revolving door of writers and directors.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

The only thing that’s comparably destructive to a movie is multiple reshoots with a revolving door of writers and directors.

Sometimes it works out though. Rogue One's production was reported to be a disaster and they had to bring in a script doctor (Tony Gilroy) and do multiple reshoots. And that movie is easily the best of the Disney films, and arguably one of the best SW movies ever made.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I've never said there weren't warts in the PT. The overarching story itself is very good.

It was the dialogue choices, and even some of the actor choices. I love Portman, she's a great actress, but I think this role was wrong for her in the end. Hayden can act, but the dialogue killed him half the time.

On the other side, Ewan was born for that role. Ian was brilliant especially in the Opera house.

I loved the concept of the Clone Wars, and how it rolled out that the Clones were the ultimate Jedi Trap/betrayal.

Its sad that more of the books didn't get into the movies. The seduction of Anakin by Palpatine was so well done in the books.

Not even that is good. Maybe you can say the general overarching initial idea was good, but the story is not. The story is a rambling, unsatisfactory mess.

edit: and by general overarching idea I mean "lets tell the story of Anakin Skywalker" because that's where it ends. It's just bad overall.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Sometimes it works out though. Rogue One's production was reported to be a disaster and they had to bring in a script doctor (Tony Gilroy) and do multiple reshoots. And that movie is easily the best of the Disney films, and arguably one of the best SW movies ever made.

I think Rogue One gets by on the strength of what happens on Scarif in the final third of the movie. I could watch that part over and over no problem, it's nearly as iconic as the ANH trench run or Luke vs Vader on Bespin. but I don't have a whole lot of desire to revisit much of the stuff before that, where you can tell the writing/directing/editing problems caused some weird disconnects, particularly the Saw Gerrera parts.

I'm hoping the consistent positive feedback they're getting with Mandalorian points them in the right direction for all future movie and TV attempts, because it proves that Star Wars fans aren't just nerdy, entitled, sexist, racist man-babies, but we demand a great story with great characters just as would be expected of any genre.

[Mazrim]

Good to know that all you need to revive this thread is to mention the prequels or TLJ.

(more hyperspace ship destruction please)

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by nik-

Not even that is good. Maybe you can say the general overarching initial idea was good, but the story is not. The story is a rambling, unsatisfactory mess.

edit: and by general overarching idea I mean "lets tell the story of Anakin Skywalker" because that's where it ends. It's just bad overall.

I think Captain is so familiar with the vastly superior novelizations (not a high bar) that it's more difficult to judge the movies purely on what was on film like many of us. like whenever a character says something mortifyingly dumb (e.g. sand rant), Cap in the back of his mind accepts this because he knows about all of Anakin's previous encounters with sand getting everywhere.