[News] Monahan knows what's on the line this season: 'I have a lot to prove'

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Monahan to play well enough to justify playing him with talent for more than borderline fourth line minutes?

The Bennett Paradox.

[Strange Brew]

Monahan is on pace for 8 goals and 39 points at an AAV of $6.375 million for one more year.

In 2019 a player with an AAV of $6.25 million for one more year who just came off a 16 goal, 37 point season was traded, and it cost the trading team a 1st round pick to lose his salary.

The 40 point pace argument is pretty thin IMO. We would be furious if Treliving used cap space in acquiring an offense first player with less than 10 goals and didn't get something significant along with it.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Almost as if there is more to the situation and numbers than a one liner.

Yeah, the number is 13 and he no longer gets that guy.

Working for his own chances and points isn't going so well.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Monahan is on pace for 8 goals and 39 points at an AAV of $6.375 million for one more year.

In 2019 a player with an AAV of $6.25 million for one more year who just came off a 16 goal, 37 point season was traded, and it cost the trading team a 1st round pick to lose his salary.

The 40 point pace argument is pretty thin IMO. We would be furious if Treliving used cap space in acquiring an offense first player with less than 10 goals and didn't get something significant along with it.

Even worse when you consider most of his points come from the prime power play spot. Even strength he is scoring less than Lucic, Lewis and Richardson.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Monahan is on pace for 8 goals and 39 points at an AAV of $6.375 million for one more year.

In 2019 a player with an AAV of $6.25 million for one more year who just came off a 16 goal, 37 point season was traded, and it cost the trading team a 1st round pick to lose his salary.

The 40 point pace argument is pretty thin IMO. We would be furious if Treliving used cap space in acquiring an offense first player with less than 10 goals and didn't get something significant along with it.

Are we comparing a 40 year old Marleau to a 27 year old Monahan, with Monahan a quarter of a season into a hip surgery recovery?

Someone in this topic posted a six month recovery time for that kind of surgery for athletes. That's right about now in time frame.

I would imagine teams would have a little more faith on a bounce back from the 27 year old, but clearly I don't know.

But as per usual I find myself in an argument to defend a player that I'm not actually defending.

My points have literally been the following, and nothing more.

- It's still relatively early
- He's still on a 40 point pace
- He may still be recovering (he may not)
- Teams may see his age, history, and last year of his contract as more of a worthy gamble than others assume

I'm not blind to how he's playing.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

No the negativity is around the idea that he will have to be bought out.

That's pretty premature for a quarter into the season. You don't have to believe his hip is an issue, that's up to you. But given the fact we know he had surgery, not sure it's that much of a leap to think it could be a factor.

But other than that I'm not defending the player at all, just suggesting someone will take a chance on a .5 ppg player with on year left on his deal and the Flames able to eat part of it.

Not a lot controversial there.

I honestly hope you're right, but my feel on the situation is that he's closer to buy out territory than he is trade bait. I get it, it's still early. But like I asked in the offseason, where is Monahan going to get his goals? How does he just magically figure it out? He's barely getting shots. His +/- is no good relative to the rest of the team. His ice time appears to be more and more volatile as the season progresses.

Also, the way I see it, any team interested in a Monahan will be in win now mode and teams in win now mode don't generally have $6M+ million free in a flat cap world for a reclamation project IMO.

[Draug]

Backlund also has 8 points, and we aren't firing him into the sun!

Granted, he plays a better defensive game, and this season has been playing against stronger competition, but he's also had better line mates.

I agree with Bingo. Give Monahan more time to recover from the injuries and surgery. At least this whole season.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

The Bennett Paradox.

Except Monahan was given a long, long time as the team's #1C before getting demoted late last season and into this season.
His production fell off long before he was moved off the top line. There's no valid argument to be made that he hasn't' been given opportunities with good linemates.
Whatever 99 problems are plaguing him, line mates ain't 1.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Analytically he has been considerably better than the four players that have also played consistent bottom six minutes this season (Lewis, Richardson, Pitlick and Lucic). He's doing what is being asked of him.

So at $6.4M, he's being asked to get consistently get scored on while not being offensively productive himself? I think there's a very big problem when your former #1 center is a comparable to PTO level veterans and one of the absolutely worst contracts in the league.

Based on Monahan's salary and clout, my expectation for him on especially on lower lines, is to drive his line, out play bottom 6 competition and make his line mates better which is not happening. Dube isn't chopped liver either, he's certainly more talented than Lewis and Lucic who many had complained were dragging Monahan down earlier in the season.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Draug

Backlund also has 8 points, and we aren't firing him into the sun!

Granted, he plays a better defensive game, and this season has been playing against stronger competition, but he's also had better line mates.

I agree with Bingo. Give Monahan more time to recover from the injuries and surgery. At least this whole season.

That's because Backlund has been considerably better than Monahan this season. I mean, if you're only looking at raw point totals without any context, then yes, both players are struggling. But when you look at the even strength points, the underlying numbers, the GF vs GA, the different roles they play and the eye test, it's not even close.

If Monahan was tasked to defend the other team's top lines, I'd probably cut him more slack. But he's not, therefore my expectation for him would be to outplay other bottom 6 lines which is more than fair.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Are we comparing a 40 year old Marleau to a 27 year old Monahan, with Monahan a quarter of a season into a hip surgery recovery?

Someone in this topic posted a six month recovery time for that kind of surgery for athletes. That's right about now in time frame.

I would imagine teams would have a little more faith on a bounce back from the 27 year old, but clearly I don't know.

But as per usual I find myself in an argument to defend a player that I'm not actually defending.

My points have literally been the following, and nothing more.

- It's still relatively early
- He's still on a 40 point pace
- He may still be recovering (he may not)
- Teams may see his age, history, and last year of his contract as more of a worthy gamble than others assume

I'm not blind to how he's playing.

No one is forcing you to defend Monahan. I have said all along that the best bet is that he improves as the year goes along.

But my point is that the 40 point pace argument which has been repeated by others is very weak. It assumes the status quo, that what you see now is what you will get all year long. That’s the point of projecting his pace, isn’t it? So 40 points, 8 goals, zero ES goals and worst plus/minus on the team.

No one is trading for this version of Monahan. Not at $6.3 million or at $4.3 million. One year of 40 old Marleau was a safer bet.

But I will say again that we are only at 21 games in so let’s see how he plays. There are reasons to hope he will get better.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Draug

Backlund also has 8 points, and we aren't firing him into the sun!

Granted, he plays a better defensive game, and this season has been playing against stronger competition, but he's also had better line mates.

I agree with Bingo. Give Monahan more time to recover from the injuries and surgery. At least this whole season.

Backlund doesn't play on PP1.

Definitely been better.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Weird thing is he seems faster than before skating wise (he will never be a speedster)but slower than before shooting wise.

So LBI he seems to have recovered but not UBI. I miss his quick flick of the wrist changeups that would fool goalies....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Backlund doesn't play on PP1.

Definitely been better.

Backlund has indeed been better between Mangiapane and Coleman than Monahan between Lewis and Richardson.

[djsFlames]

Can we just get him shooting at a net like 5 hours a day, 7 days a week? Build up that strength and find the mechanics again.

Sean's old shot is the answer to everything that ails the team when they haven't won this season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Whatever 99 problems are plaguing him, line mates ain't 1.

Could be a bitch.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Backlund has indeed been better between Mangiapane and Coleman than Monahan between Lewis and Richardson.

Not to mention, Mangiapane has 15 goals. Probably not all, but many, have been with Backlund as Center. Yet Backlund has only 4 assists.

Backlund has been absolutely awful offensively given his spot in the top 6. Granted, he's been better than Monahan, but Backlund has not been good, except maybe defensively.

[GreenLantern2814]

^^^At least Backlund can skate with the puck on his stick.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No one is forcing you to defend Monahan. I have said all along that the best bet is that he improves as the year goes along.

But my point is that the 40 point pace argument which has been repeated by others is very weak. It assumes the status quo, that what you see now is what you will get all year long. That’s the point of projecting his pace, isn’t it? So 40 points, 8 goals, zero ES goals and worst plus/minus on the team.

No one is trading for this version of Monahan. Not at $6.3 million or at $4.3 million. One year of 40 old Marleau was a safer bet.

But I will say again that we are only at 21 games in so let’s see how he plays. There are reasons to hope he will get better.

You can't just plug any one on a powerplay and have him produce.

Monahan leads the team with powerplay first assists with 4 on the season.

I hope his five on five game gets better.

But he's 27, has a history of production, just had a surgery, and only has one year left on his contract.

We're just repeating ourselves, but I think a team takes a chance with some salary retained; they may not need to retain any.

And a 40 year old comparison was pretty weak itself!

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Always Earned Never Given

Weird thing is he seems faster than before skating wise (he will never be a speedster)but slower than before shooting wise.

So LBI he seems to have recovered but not UBI. I miss his quick flick of the wrist changeups that would fool goalies....

I don't think that's gone at all. His ability to shoot still exists, however the opportunities in which he can use it has dropped off a cliff. As I've said in the past, Monahan lacks the ability to create his own shot, so he needs a playmaker to get him the puck in prime scoring areas. Dube doesn't appear to be that guy.

So at this point, it's up to Monahan to change his game if he wants to stay in this league. He's added more assertiveness and aggression in his game in recent years, so perhaps it's time for him to play in the dirty areas of the game. Start using his big frame to screen goalies, tip pucks, create havoc and capitalize on chances in and around the goal mouth.

Perhaps it's too big of a transformation, but I don't think he has a choice at this point. He certainly has the tools to at least try.