The Legend of Sam Bennett

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

The Flames devalued the asset with their own incompetence

The market place thing is just another in a litany of excuses

It’s not an excuse at all. It’s simply the definition of market value.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s not an excuse at all. It’s simply the definition of market value.

Don't bother...starting to think this poster might actually be Theo. Acts like him.

[Johnny Makarov]

Why was there no posts in this thread from Jan 4th to the 14th?

Oh yeah, McBennett got himself suspended. Still not a very bright player....

and yeah... I'm pretty sure Derek Ryan would have the same amount of points this year as Sam if he was playing with Huberdeau.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Still doesn't change that he has the hockey IQ of an eggplant. In 8 months this is going to become the biggest I told you so thread in CP history.

It’s been 8 months

You haven’t changed a bit

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It’s been 8 months

You haven’t changed a bit

Just came back from a 3 game suspension and is putting up goals in out of hand games. I can see him doing something derpy this season to be suspended again. haha

But you guys are right. He is definitely on track for 600 goals and 1300 points again...lol

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Why was there no posts in this thread from Jan 4th to the 14th?

Oh yeah, McBennett got himself suspended. Still not a very bright player....

and yeah... I'm pretty sure Derek Ryan would have the same amount of points this year as Sam if he was playing with Huberdeau.

What a silly thing to suggest.

Bennett has 21 goals, and 38 points in 39 games as a Florida Panther. He also has 1 goal and 4 assists in 5 playoff games for the Panthers. Derek Ryan, huh? Sure.

It’s just stupid to look at 38 points in 39 games and write it off as “putting up goals in out of hand games”.

[Saqe]

^
It's a lazy argument that it's all Huberdeau. Owen Tippett didn't do much at all last year while playing almost entirely with Huberdeau, does that make Huberdeau a bad player now?


The entire line of Huberdeau-Bennett-Duclair is clicking very well right now and they all are part of it.

[Classic_Sniper]

There’s a lot of chatter in here, but I think everyone is sort of dancing around the real problem.

The Florida Panthers built their core around 3 elite studs and then complimented these guys with excellent players around them. Huberdeau is just an offensive dynamo who has proven he can elevate players around him. Ditto for Barkov who may not be as offensively gifted as Huberdeau, but he can drive play on both ends of the ice and will be a perennial Selke winner for years to come.

The Flames conversely, did not rebuild long enough to obtain elite drivers like the Huberdeau’s, the Barkov’s and the Ekblad’s. I’d argue Gaudreau is a comparable, but he doesn’t have that big hulking frame nor does he have a background as a centerman. At his diminutive frame, he’s going to have warts in his game that those other top 3 picks don’t really have.

Had the Flames rebuilt longer and weren’t in such a hurry to just get to average. Maybe we would have the stud pieces that could make get the full potential out of a Sam Bennett or a Troy Brouwer or yes, even a James Neal. It’s not that these failed projects were due to signing or drafting bad players, it might be as simple as the Flames just didn’t have the right core pieces that could elevate the game of these said players.

Your core players are everything. That’s why a team like Tampa Bay can lose an entire 3rd line to free agency or have their superstar on the IR for 2 seasons and not skip a beat.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

and yeah... I'm pretty sure Derek Ryan would have the same amount of points this year as Sam if he was playing with Huberdeau.

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t. It’s a laughable suggestion.

[Jiri Hrdina]

For the record I don't think it's all Huberdeau. I think good players play well with other good players. I think Huberdeau elevates those around him for sure.
The "Real Sam" lies somewhere between the player in Calgary and the player in Florida with Huberdeau. Take Huberdeau away from him and he's not as productive, but still more productive than he was here.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For the record I don't think it's all Huberdeau. I think good players play well with other good players. I think Huberdeau elevates those around him for sure.
The "Real Sam" lies somewhere between the player in Calgary and the player in Florida with Huberdeau. Take Huberdeau away from him and he's not as productive, but still more productive than he was here.

It's amazing what a little confidence can do for a young player as well.

Still only 24. Been playing in the NHL since 18, and arguably needed lower level development to grow his game at higher speeds so he could execute at an NHL level. Going straight from being able to run around/through every 16/17 year old in JR to trying to run around/through Drew Doughty is a big, big leap. I think people forget how different they were when they were under 25.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For the record I don't think it's all Huberdeau. I think good players play well with other good players. I think Huberdeau elevates those around him for sure.
The "Real Sam" lies somewhere between the player in Calgary and the player in Florida with Huberdeau. Take Huberdeau away from him and he's not as productive, but still more productive than he was here.

I agree. I think Sam is a good player. He's a two-way 2nd line center who is getting a bump in offensive numbers because of the depth and high end skill found on Florida. He also brings an aggressiveness/physicality that really matters in this league (I think that same aggressiveness/physicality is one of the reasons why we paid Coleman what we paid him, he brings it as well).

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For the record I don't think it's all Huberdeau. I think good players play well with other good players. I think Huberdeau elevates those around him for sure.
The "Real Sam" lies somewhere between the player in Calgary and the player in Florida with Huberdeau. Take Huberdeau away from him and he's not as productive, but still more productive than he was here.

Sure.

But then that logic applies to a lot of really good second fiddles. The real Brayden Point without Kucherov. The real Leon Draisaitl without McDavid being in on over half his points. The real Backstrom/Kuznetsov without Ovechkin. The real Lindholm without Gaudreau. The real Bergeron without Marchand. The real (prime) Toews without Kane/Hossa.

It's impossible to isolate individual points from linemates.

What we know is that Bennett, as with a lot of those names, does a lot on the ice that isn't always evident in raw point totals. His value is diverse.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The Flames conversely, did not rebuild long enough to obtain elite drivers like the Huberdeau’s, the Barkov’s and the Ekblad’s. I’d argue Gaudreau is a comparable, but he doesn’t have that big hulking frame nor does he have a background as a centerman. At his diminutive frame, he’s going to have warts in his game that those other top 3 picks don’t really have.

Ekblad isn't without warts (footspeed is a major issue, and a handful of arguments can be made that the unheralded Forsling and Weegar have both been just as good as him) and Huberdeau's production would likely see a dip without Barkov on another (or alternatively same) line. Gaudreau is certainly on the same tier as those two. Kylington is trending toward the same tier as Ekblad as well

but yes, the core of your argument I agree with. The Flames failed to acquire a Barkov. These are players you have to tank for. Unless you are Vegas.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

There’s a lot of chatter in here, but I think everyone is sort of dancing around the real problem.

The Florida Panthers built their core around 3 elite studs and then complimented these guys with excellent players around them. Huberdeau is just an offensive dynamo who has proven he can elevate players around him. Ditto for Barkov who may not be as offensively gifted as Huberdeau, but he can drive play on both ends of the ice and will be a perennial Selke winner for years to come.

The Flames conversely, did not rebuild long enough to obtain elite drivers like the Huberdeau’s, the Barkov’s and the Ekblad’s. I’d argue Gaudreau is a comparable, but he doesn’t have that big hulking frame nor does he have a background as a centerman. At his diminutive frame, he’s going to have warts in his game that those other top 3 picks don’t really have.

Had the Flames rebuilt longer and weren’t in such a hurry to just get to average. Maybe we would have the stud pieces that could make get the full potential out of a Sam Bennett or a Troy Brouwer or yes, even a James Neal. It’s not that these failed projects were due to signing or drafting bad players, it might be as simple as the Flames just didn’t have the right core pieces that could elevate the game of these said players.

Your core players are everything. That’s why a team like Tampa Bay can lose an entire 3rd line to free agency or have their superstar on the IR for 2 seasons and not skip a beat.

For the most part you are right, however no core in the world can help Brouwer and Neal. That’s was a big Treliving’s screw up.

Don’t forget Neal failed with Mcdavid.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sure.

But then that logic applies to a lot of really good second fiddles. The real Brayden Point without Kucherov. The real Leon Draisaitl without McDavid being in on over half his points. The real Backstrom/Kuznetsov without Ovechkin. The real Lindholm without Gaudreau. The real Bergeron without Marchand. The real (prime) Toews without Kane/Hossa.

It's impossible to isolate individual points from linemates.

What we know is that Bennett, as with a lot of those names, does a lot on the ice that isn't always evident in raw point totals. His value is diverse.

My view is that those other players are at a level much higher than Sam and are player drivers on their own. I don't put Sam in their class at all.
I think my view is a pretty balanced take on things.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My view is that those other players are at a level much higher than Sam and are player drivers on their own. I don't put Sam in their class at all.
I think my view is a pretty balanced take on things.

Sam is not in their class when it comes to offensive skill, no question. But he brings so much more than point production, which regularly gets forgotten.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My view is that those other players are at a level much higher than Sam and are player drivers on their own. I don't put Sam in their class at all.
I think my view is a pretty balanced take on things.

My view is that Bennett was a playdriver even when stapled to the likes of Jankowski and such. The chance metrics even bared this out, but people were quick to dismiss this due to confirmation bias with respect to the low on-ice shooting percentages of Bennett's entire Flames tenure.

[Jiri Hrdina]

You may be suffering from confirmation bias yourself
Anyways I have no appetite to argue about Sam. Again I thought I was offering a balanced view of him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ekblad isn't without warts (footspeed is a major issue, and a handful of arguments can be made that the unheralded Forsling and Weegar have both been just as good as him) and Huberdeau's production would likely see a dip without Barkov on another (or alternatively same) line. Gaudreau is certainly on the same tier as those two. Kylington is trending toward the same tier as Ekblad as well

but yes, the core of your argument I agree with. The Flames failed to acquire a Barkov. These are players you have to tank for. Unless you are Vegas.

Yeah true, really only wanted to talk about Huberdeau and Barkov, but didn’t want to exclude former #1 pick Aaron Ekblad.