What do you know about meat?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We used to eat raw bacon all the time when I was a kid. I didn't think it was weird until I left the nest and people were like WTF. Isn't it pretty much like eating pancetta?

Pancetta is salt cured

Bacon well isn't, at least I don't think it is, but with each keystroke I question myself more.


I have seen pancetta offered up on menus, but I have never seen raw bacon.


Do we have a swine expert that can confirm?


Edit ok the googles say Pancetta eat away, bacon cook first.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Pancetta is salt cured

Bacon well isn't, at least I don't think it is, but with each keystroke I question myself more.


I have seen pancetta offered up on menus, but I have never seen raw bacon.


Do we have a swine expert that can confirm?


Edit ok the googles say Pancetta eat away, bacon cook first.

Bacon is salt cured. It's also smoked.

You can eat Pancetta raw, because its been dry aged for much longer.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Should I get a dehydrator? I’ve thought about it but don’t know how much I’d use it and I don’t really want another appliance. My neighbour dried some of my apples into apple chips.

The instructions are usually right on the device itself. I always set it high and check periodically for doneness. Plums, apples, pears, fish, beef are all good. They aren’t a lot of space, but I just leave it in our storage room. Alternatively, use your oven at low temp.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The instructions are usually right on the device itself. I always set it high and check periodically for doneness. Plums, apples, pears, fish, beef are all good. They aren’t a lot of space, but I just leave it in our storage room. Alternatively, use your oven at low temp.

What about using our air fryer?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

What about using our air fryer?

I am not sure of the mechanics of the air fryer. What happens to the air? You don’t want to recirculate the moist air, you want to basically get rid of the moisture.

[MoneyGuy]

I don’t know if the air fryer does that or not. I know it’s very effective at cooking ‘most anything.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I know a fair bit about steaks, because steaks are good, and because I have Kenji Lopez Alt’s book “The Food Lab”

A fun fact - if you are going to salt a steak, make sure it’s for at least 40 minutes, even overnight. The salt draws out moisture, creates a brine, and reabsorbs. If you have only 20 minutes, just season it immediately before grilling. What you don’t want to do is to salt it in between, then lose the moisture. (Supported by experiment)

You can see more good info on steaks here, without having to buy the book:

https://www.seriouseats.com/food-lab...-cuts-of-steak


I also know (from the same book) that you don’t need to cook chicken right to 165. There is a correlation between temperature, and how long you have to hold that temperature, in order for it to be safe to eat. If you know the details, you will no longer need to suffer from dry, overcooked meat!

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by blankall

If you mince and leave it out, you're substantially increasing the risk of spoiling.

You should be able to dry the meat out after it's been sausaged just by hanging it. It'll dry through the casing.

Most commercial peperoni probably isn't dry, because:
a. it takes time/effort to dry
b. dried meat weighs less and peperoni is sold by weight. They want to sell you water.

Maybe I made a mistake, but I definitely recall something about dry aging meats going into sausage for them to be drier. The drier the meat, the less time you'd have to continue letting it dry after it's in the casing. I also read that you basically have to slow dry the sausage in a humid environment so that the casing doesn't dry out too fast, screwing up the whole thing.

But I don't recall where I saw that, so just assume I misread for now. Otherwise someone's going to mess up and get sick.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I know a fair bit about steaks, because steaks are good, and because I have Kenji Lopez Alt’s book “The Food Lab”

A fun fact - if you are going to salt a steak, make sure it’s for at least 40 minutes, even overnight. The salt draws out moisture, creates a brine, and reabsorbs. If you have only 20 minutes, just season it immediately before grilling. What you don’t want to do is to salt it in between, then lose the moisture. (Supported by experiment)

You can see more good info on steaks here, without having to buy the book:

https://www.seriouseats.com/food-lab...-cuts-of-steak


I also know (from the same book) that you don’t need to cook chicken right to 165. There is a correlation between temperature, and how long you have to hold that temperature, in order for it to be safe to eat. If you know the details, you will no longer need to suffer from dry, overcooked meat!

Yup, I also love that book. His sections on the perfect soft boiled egg and perfect burger are also pretty fantastic.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I don’t know if the air fryer does that or not. I know it’s very effective at cooking ‘most anything.

What is the lowest temp for your air fryer? Many don't go below 80-90C (Around 200F) which would likely cook and brown the fruit prior to drying it out. You'll have something dry, but I don't think it'll be what you're hoping for. It's still worth a test, but I don't think it'll be what you're aiming for.

Why 200F might work for an oven but not an air fryer IMO is basically due to two things IMO. The food isn't as close to the element and there isn't the airflow under the food. You're right that the air fryer is good at cooking most anything, but sometimes you just want to dry without cooking the thing you put inside. This is especially true for fruits, but kinda 50/50 for jerkies.

You had mentioned apple chips. Yes, you'd probably be aiming for a higher temp for apple chips than apple rings. But even then, the lowest temps on an air fryer still seem too high. I'm pretty sure the air fryer doesn't recirculate the moist air as per the previous convo, but I am quite certain it's not quite the right tool for the job. Your apple chips may end up with a sort of burnt flavor in an air fryer as it is more delicate than meat.


Many dehydrators are around the 30-60C range vs 90-200C for air fryers. This is the one I have. It has a ton of materials and explanations on how to dehydrate things.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

At around 30-40C, most fruit maintain their colors. At around 50C, some fruit starts to brown (ie: Peaches, pineapple, apple, banana etc.) some fruit still maintains the color, but starts to go slightly opaque and darker in color (ie: honeydew, cantaloupe and watermelon). Texture also differs as well as low heat drying allows for the inside and outside texture to be similar. This is easier and more appropriate for things like dried fruits with texture. Higher heat drying sorta creates a "crust" which sometimes means failure for drying fruits if the thickness is incorrect. The outside is dry and hard but the inside is basically still mushy and damp. This is acceptable for stuff like beef jerky, but not really for dried fruit.

I'm not convinced that both an air fryer and dehydrator will show similar results for fruit. But definitely both an air fryer and dehydrator can work for beef jerky. That being said, the surface area on dehydrators will be significantly lower than a dehydrator for a similar footprint appliance. My Nesco probably has 3-4x more dehydrating space than a 5.6qt air fryer and both appliances are about the same size. For dehydrating purposes, I'd say a 5.6qt air fryer would yield about a small snack sized ziploc. An actual dehydrator of similar size would yield about half to 2/3 of a freezer bag in a single session.

[MoneyGuy]

Great answer, DF. Much appreciated. You’ve convinced me

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Maybe I made a mistake, but I definitely recall something about dry aging meats going into sausage for them to be drier. The drier the meat, the less time you'd have to continue letting it dry after it's in the casing. I also read that you basically have to slow dry the sausage in a humid environment so that the casing doesn't dry out too fast, screwing up the whole thing.

But I don't recall where I saw that, so just assume I misread for now. Otherwise someone's going to mess up and get sick.

Bacteria doesn't penetrate beef and pork very well, that's why you are able to dry age steaks and full cuts. Once you mince the meat, however, you are exposing the entirety of the meat to bacteria. I suppose you could dry the meat for a relatively short amount of time (maybe hours instead of days) before putting it into the casing, but I wouldn't go very long. If you add heat or dryness, you also run the risk of cooking the meat.

There are special dry aging fridges you can buy. You can get away with most sausages and cured meats in a regular fridge though by hanging them from a string.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I know a fair bit about steaks, because steaks are good, and because I have Kenji Lopez Alt’s book “The Food Lab”

A fun fact - if you are going to salt a steak, make sure it’s for at least 40 minutes, even overnight. The salt draws out moisture, creates a brine, and reabsorbs. If you have only 20 minutes, just season it immediately before grilling. What you don’t want to do is to salt it in between, then lose the moisture. (Supported by experiment)

You can see more good info on steaks here, without having to buy the book:

https://www.seriouseats.com/food-lab...-cuts-of-steak


I also know (from the same book) that you don’t need to cook chicken right to 165. There is a correlation between temperature, and how long you have to hold that temperature, in order for it to be safe to eat. If you know the details, you will no longer need to suffer from dry, overcooked meat!

I've started brining all my poultry. Changed my life.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've started brining all my poultry. Changed my life.

I started collecting all of the pickle juice left over from jars of pickles and use that as a brine for wings. Works really well.

[darockwilder]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've started brining all my poultry. Changed my life.

Me too for full chickens. Really helps. For cuts I only cook thighs, so I haven't gone the full brine route for them yet.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I started collecting all of the pickle juice left over from jars of pickles and use that as a brine for wings. Works really well.

I've only ever used just plain salt brines. I must admit I was pretty nervous about leaving a turkey in cold water and salt overnight, but it worked out amazing. Not only was the taste way better, but it also vastly extended the window for cooking the turkey between cooked and dried out. I'll never not brine a turkey again.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by blankall

Bacteria doesn't penetrate beef and pork very well, that's why you are able to dry age steaks and full cuts. Once you mince the meat, however, you are exposing the entirety of the meat to bacteria. I suppose you could dry the meat for a relatively short amount of time (maybe hours instead of days) before putting it into the casing, but I wouldn't go very long. If you add heat or dryness, you also run the risk of cooking the meat.

There are special dry aging fridges you can buy. You can get away with most sausages and cured meats in a regular fridge though by hanging them from a string.

I agree with the premise of what you're describing.

Maybe what I was thinking about was just leaving the meat in the fridge for 24-48 hours after to mincing, but the minced meat would have to have the seasoning, salts and curing agents. This would be something not too dissimilar to what was mentioned for salting a steak and letting it create brine that keeps getting reabsorbed back into the meat for a deeper flavour. I think the confusion was that I definitely was thinking about there being salt/curing agent along with other meats on the minced sausage meat in the fridge. It's not just plain minced meat in the fridge without preservative which I agree would risk bacteria growth and it isn't recommended.

Personally if I were to make a sausage that I wanted a little drier, I would experiment with letting the "sausage mix" sit in the fridge for a few hours or a day. That's what I seem to recall having read, but I cannot confirm this by finding an article that I had read. Theoretically though, that salt/curing agent/alcohol etc. to address the bacteria would allow for that short window of slightly drying out the meat prior to inserting it into a casing.

Looking back, I agree with you that mincing the meat without a preservative and leaving it in the fridge for a day or two isn't the best approach. It wasn't my intention to suggest that, but I also didn't describe it correctly. My bad.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've started brining all my poultry. Changed my life.

Here is some food for thought on brining … Serious Eats say that dry brining gives the same benefits of brining, while preserving more flavour


https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food...y-thanksgiving

To understand what's really happening, you have to look at the structure of turkey muscles. Muscles are made up of long, bundled fibers, each one housed in a tough protein sheath. As the turkey heats, the proteins that make up this sheath will contract. Just like when you squeeze a tube of toothpaste, this causes juices to be forced out of the bird. Heat them to much above 150°F (66°C) or so, and you end up with dry, stringy meat.

Salt helps mitigate this shrinkage by dissolving some of the muscle proteins (mainly myosin). The muscle fibers loosen up, allowing them to absorb more moisture, and, more importantly, they don't contract as much when they cook, ensuring that more of that moisture stays in place as the turkey cooks.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Here is some food for thought on brining … Serious Eats say that dry brining gives the same benefits of brining, while preserving more flavour


https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food...y-thanksgiving

I've tried pure salt. The article is being a bit disingenuous as to the ease of using this method. If the salt is left on for too long, it turns the turkey a pink colour and gives it a rubbery texture. With some experimentation it might be possible to come up with the perfect amount of salt/time for this method.

It also takes 1-2+ days to dry brine. Whereas, you can wet brine overnight.

I only cook turkey once a year max, so I prefer the wet brine, as it's pretty hard to mess up. I've never had a problem with lack of flavor.

[DoubleK]

I find dry brining works better for beef and wet for full bird poultry.

Buttermilk works best for chicken breasts/thighs.