Coyotes for sale again? Possible buyer in Houston

[FanIn80]

Dallas Stars / Houston Coyotes rivalry is a go?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

It's just weird how the league bends over backwards to save the Coyote, even taking ownership for a period of time.

But they didn't hesitate one moment to move QC & WPG.

Very different time periods and very different arena and ownership situations.

The Nordiques were playing in a 15,000 seat arena built in 1949 and the Jets were in a 15,000 seat arena built in 1955. They were also in the 2 smallest markets in the league, moving to two of the larger markets.

The mid-90s was a weird time in pro sports because you had big markets that wanted to be perceived as big players, so they wanted to become "4 sport" cities, like Miami, Phoenix, Denver, Dallas, and Atlanta. You also had smaller cities that didn't have any teams who wanted to be seen as "major league" cities, like Nashville, Columbus, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, and Jacksonville.

Also, at the time, a lot of the existing arenas were old and out-of-date, so you had many cities across the continent that were willing to spend a lot of money to build new arenas either to attract expansion or relocated teams, or to keep their existing teams.

Another thing is that the threat to move a team if you don't get what you want has to be real, so some teams had to move in order to spook the cities that were reluctant to play ball.

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With the Coyotes situation, you had a city in Glendale that had played the game and did what they were asked to do, so pulling out and leaving would not have been a good look. Also, at the time, the Coyotes lease with Glendale was said to be one of the strongest arena leases a city had ever signed and came with pretty significant penalties if the team moved (those have subsequently been negotiated away).

The league didn't like the way Ballsilie had tried to do an end-run around their ownership rules, so they also dug their heels in for that reason. If he had been able to get away with it, it could have thrown the league into chaos for years.

If Ballsilie had played by the rules a little better -- like Chipman did -- who knows what might have happened? The Toronto and Buffalo territorial rights issue was also a problem for Ballsilie, so it would always have been a battle.



Generally, the league has always preferred to keep teams in their current cities and will make every effort to see that happen so long as there are owners willing to own the team in that city. For better or worse, for the last decade, there's always been someone who thinks they can make Phoenix a viable market.

[metroneck]

For a Southern market, Houston has a fairly robust Minor Hockey Scene. This is especially interesting, as there is not an NHL team there.

We go to 4-5 Tournaments in TX per year. Usually every split between Dallas and Houston. I am always surprised at how well supported and passionate the people are about hockey there.

I think it would do as well as any ‘non-traditional’ (MN, MI, IL, NY, MA) hockey market in the US.

[TheIronMaiden]

I'd love for there to be another Canadian team, because of divisional balance Quebec would need an eastern team to move. With Carolina and Flordia being strong teams there attendance is on an upswing. So the likelihood of that has probably been pushed back a decade.

If (when) Arizona is relocated, it will be to Houston who have had interest in a team for some time now. Which isn't a bad thing for increasing the NHL's market share.

[timun]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I'd love for there to be another Canadian team, because of divisional balance Quebec would need an eastern team to move.

You're mistakenly assuming "divisional balance" matters much; it doesn't.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Houston is far more capable of supporting a team than Quebec, which has already failed once. We're talking 6.6 million people versus 830K, and a huge corporate base versus almost nothing. Plus taxes.

Winnipeg seems to be doing ok with an even smaller population and doesn't Arizona have a bigger population than Houston?

Sorry not buying the population argument when an NFL team can't even sell out in Houston while having a winning season. I just don't think Houston is a big sports town and think Quebec is the better option.

[_Q_]

I think Houston will do well with an NHL team. With that said, some cities, no matter how large, just aren't sports towns. Population size doesn't always translate to success of a franchise.

[talladega.25]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Houston is far more capable of supporting a team than Quebec, which has already failed once. We're talking 6.6 million people versus 830K, and a huge corporate base versus almost nothing. Plus taxes.

Agreed, plus lots of Canadian/Albertan ties in Houston due to the wonderful shape our economy is in. Id rather root for team in a State like Texas rather than another team in a province like Quebec.

[CroFlames]

I'll just come out and say Sask should get a team.

Instant rivalry since their fans would be as insufferable as Rider fans. It would be glorious.

[timun]

Originally Posted by getbak

With the Coyotes situation, you had a city in Glendale that had played the game and did what they were asked to do, so pulling out and leaving would not have been a good look. Also, at the time, the Coyotes lease with Glendale was said to be one of the strongest arena leases a city had ever signed and came with pretty significant penalties if the team moved (those have subsequently been negotiated away).

The league didn't like the way Ballsilie had tried to do an end-run around their ownership rules, so they also dug their heels in for that reason. If he had been able to get away with it, it could have thrown the league into chaos for years.

If Ballsilie had played by the rules a little better -- like Chipman did -- who knows what might have happened? The Toronto and Buffalo territorial rights issue was also a problem for Ballsilie, so it would always have been a battle.



Generally, the league has always preferred to keep teams in their current cities and will make every effort to see that happen so long as there are owners willing to own the team in that city. For better or worse, for the last decade, there's always been someone who thinks they can make Phoenix a viable market.

This, a thousand times over. People whine and whine "How come the NHL tries so hard to keep the Coyotes in Arizona?!", and this is why. The City of Glendale played ball, they did everything the League/Coyotes asked of them: they spent a boatload of money building an arena for them, they gave them a sweetheart deal on the lease/operating agreement. If the Coyotes were allowed to just bail on that market it would screw the entire North American pro sports industry up. If the Coyotes abandoned Glendale years ago every municipality on the continent would balk at ever publicly financing an arena again.

[Hoop27]

I had the misfortune of having to cover the Glendale/Atlanta/Winnipeg gong show years ago and this is correct. The reason the Yotes stayed was because of the money Glendale ended up putting in etc. Atlanta's city council told the league to pound sand so they ended up moving.

Originally Posted by timun

This, a thousand times over. People whine and whine "How come the NHL tries so hard to keep the Coyotes in Arizona?!", and this is why. The City of Glendale played ball, they did everything the League/Coyotes asked of them: they spent a boatload of money building an arena for them, they gave them a sweetheart deal on the lease/operating agreement. If the Coyotes were allowed to just bail on that market it would screw the entire North American pro sports industry up. If the Coyotes abandoned Glendale years ago every municipality on the continent would balk at ever publicly financing an arena again.

[Mass_nerder]

Houston has a lot of Canadian expats; they even have a bar (Maple leaf pub) run by a guy from Calgary (I believe).

[timun]

Phoenix has lots of Canadian expats and snowbirds too; I fail to see the point of bringing it up with respect to Houston, as though that'll make it a "great hockey market".

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by timun

Phoenix has lots of Canadian expats and snowbirds too; I fail to see the point of bringing it up with respect to Houston, as though that'll make it a "great hockey market".

Okay

[Strange Brew]

This rumor is most likely false.

There have been no stories in Houston media about a possible new arena. Anything is possible, but you'd expect some smoke on that one.

The Rockets, who control the current arena and are owned by Tillman Fertitta, have no current interest in buying an NHL team. As I understand it, they took advantage of the Covid downtime to remove all the icemaking equipment and make it a private club area. The last comment I have seen from Fertitta about the NHL was a long time ago.

Anything is possible but IMO it's more likely the Tempe arena deal plays out first.

Obviously Houston could support a team with a metro population of over 7 million. It's also a very diverse city, which IMO doesn't really mesh that well with hockey which is one of the least diverse major sports on the planet.

There are transplanted Canadians in Houston but the minor hockey scene hasn't grown in last 15 years. It has maybe gone the opposite direction with a major ice complex closing, the ice at Toyota center no longer available and zero talk of anything new on the horizon.

The hockey community in Phoenix is more robust, with more rinks, tournaments and teams. But I get that it is a chicken and egg thing. I just don't think anyone in Houston is dying to put an NHL team there right now especially with franchise values so high.

Now watch there be an announcement tomorrow.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by timun

Phoenix has lots of Canadian expats and snowbirds too; I fail to see the point of bringing it up with respect to Houston, as though that'll make it a "great hockey market".

Phoenix expats are retirees and recreational home types - there to golf. Houston ones are more currently employed in the PNG industry.

[Monahammer]

Houston is 1.5x the size of Phoenix, so even attracting a negligible portion of the population would result in a fairly large fan base.

[CroFlames]

Plus all the Canadians are in Scottsdale, not Glendale.

[Strange Brew]

Expats alone don't come close to making a franchise viable IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Plus all the Canadians are in Scottsdale, not Glendale.

I actually know a few closer to Glendale (mind you Glendale is spread out in area and so is Scottsdale for that matter - N Scottsdale isn't that far, but central Scottsdale is a far drive.