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Old 11-30-2021, 01:27 PM   #61
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Sounds like maybe Q is on to something after all?
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Old 11-30-2021, 01:30 PM   #62
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I'm not really anti-Clinton. My politics align pretty closely with theirs. But if Bill and Donald got locked up and we never had to hear from a Trump or Clinton again, I think the world would be a better place.
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Old 11-30-2021, 01:38 PM   #63
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That photo above...is that one of the Bronfman's behind Trump? It looks like one of the Bronfman daughters that was bankrolling the NXIVM stuff.
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Old 11-30-2021, 02:12 PM   #64
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Just to put it out there, here is the definition of sexual trafficking (CDC webiste - why there? first one that popped up):

Human trafficking occurs when a trafficker exploits an individual with force, fraud, or coercion to make them perform commercial sex or work. Sex trafficking is defined by the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 “the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act.” It involves the use of force, fraud, or coercion to make an adult engage in commercial sex acts. However, any commercial sexual activity with a minor, even without force, fraud, or coercion, is considered trafficking.

So two things make it sex trafficking:
(1) the use of force, fraud, or coercion to make an adult engage in commercial sex acts.
(2) any commercial sexual activity with a minor - ever.

And while Qanon has certainly adopted the child sex trafficking banner in their fight against the "cabal" (while calling a known sexual harasser and underage voyeur their saviour), the reality is that so many of the sex trafficking that takes place today is the result of prohibitions on prostitution and drug abuse. Things which most Qanon believers would likely not advocate for changes.


The guy was a billionaire, and billionaires do like to rub shoulders with other rich and powerful people - its the nature of the ultra elite. So it makes some sense that a lot of these people would be seen with Epstein - especially politicians who are campaign funding lap dogs.

I think there are probably a significant amount of celebrities/rich/powerful who went to the island for totally innocuous reasons. You think Neve Campbell and John Glenn are heading there for a week of unbridled hedonisms? I can't say beyond a reasonable doubt.

I also certainly believe that some people went down to the island for some unabashed sex games. Did they know that the women were prostitutes? some probably yes, some probably no, some probably willfully blind to their status.

Were all the girls underage? i highly doubt it.

Did the guys know their ages? probably not. most probably assumed they were of age, or most didn't care.

Again, i couldn't beyond a reasonable doubt decide who went down for what reason, who partook in sexual activities, and whether those activities were consensual or with a minor. I could not conclude that these people were aware of any activities that would have met the definition of sex trafficking as listed above.

Now. Do not get me wrong. There are several people who went down to the island to knowingly have sex with underage girls. But which ones? How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?

Sure, Epstein and Maxwell could verbally name them, but it is hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that was the case with that alone. You would need receipts - emails/texts/documents that would tie them to the time and place. Or, at the very least some very strong corroborating witnesses.

Now, the other issue is the Weinstein question. How many of these people heard the "rumours" and chose to do nothing? Could they have done something? I mean, its just a rumour? to what extent did these people know?

While not illegal it is certainly something we need to consider in broader society as a whole.

So, will anyone go to prison? no - besides Maxwell. Their may be better evidence that the Feds have, but I will believe it when i see it.

Last edited by Cappy; 11-30-2021 at 02:13 PM. Reason: sorry for the long post - thought it would lead to some interesting discussion
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Old 12-02-2021, 01:14 PM   #65
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Sex trafficking in the QAnon sense refers to abducting (white) young women (or children) to then sell their sexual services for profit. It's really just an extension of the stranger danger panic and the satanic panic, and the idea of international sex trafficking rings don't really make any sense once you stop to think about it, legally or financially.

There isn't a huge buyer base willing to purchase sex from women in cells. There's also no evidence of secret satanic cults sacrificing children basically ever.

The QAnon theories or the Gunderson theories are extremely different from the actual problem, which is men using their authority and influence to pressure vulnerable women close to them to perform sexual services. Epstein, Weinstein, Larry Nassar, Jean-Luc Brunel etc. are not kidnapping unknown people from the street, but rather they position themselves in places where they get easy access to and power over lots of young women.

The typical sex trafficking case where someone is forced to sell sex involves a supposedly romantic partner (typically a significantly older male) being the one doing the pressuring/forcing, and in some rare cases it's a drug seller or human trafficker, but the last for obvious reasons is not a thing that threatens white women already in the US.

The satanic sex trafficking rings are really a red herring that does not in any way address the actual sexual abuse that happens in the world.

Sexual abuse of women has nothing to do with satanic cults or kidnappings, and everything to do with patriarchal power structures and vast economic differences between people.

Last edited by Itse; 12-02-2021 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 12-02-2021, 01:37 PM   #66
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Child sex trafficking is extremely valuable because it is the best tool for blackmail by a huge margin, it's the ultimate carrot on a stick. It's extremely difficult to procure children with any regularity, so once Epstein (or whoever else) gets them into it, they have to keep coming back to him for supply and they can never betray him because once someone is outed as a pedo, they face complete exile and lose everything. This would give Epstein absolute control over his victims, because most people would rather chew their own dick off then get publicly outed as a pedo, there is no redemption for them. He can then use the people he has ensared to bring others into his trap.


The value of tool that gives you complete control of extremely powerful people can't be understated.
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Old 12-02-2021, 06:04 PM   #67
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There are for example plenty of stories of rather disgusting behavior the oil sheiks are up to with western "instagram influencers", but they also pay extremely well. As in luxury hotels and first class flights, thousands of dollars for just showing up and $10,000 for doing something you would never do for free. You can reportedly come home from a trip like that with $100k in your pocket. You'll also likely have all new traumas because they don't pay that kind of money for you to do something normal, but no one forced you to do anything.

Abhorrent behavior for sure, but legal and technically consensual, and morally... well, less horrible.
I imagine a lot of those cases are an incremental process...the money may not be the thing that earns the 'consent'...more likely the targets 'coincidentally' see an example of how dissenters can be treated in those palaces.

Like the implication of being on a boat.

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Oh, and if you're wondering what they 'have' on people, remember that Epstein had cameras in his homes where he would be able to record all kinds of scandalous stuff.

Not that everyone associated with him is guilty, but when you fly to his island, there is no way you weren't participating in the hideous stuff they were doing.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...roperties.html
It is plausible that if you only visit once or twice that you're not fully aware/participating
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:27 PM   #68
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I think a lot of people get sucked into the “world elite” story line of this. Despite the allure of the celebrity names attached to Epstein, human trafficking (adult or children) and the grooming for sexual assault happens frequently in the city and country, with people from all walks of life participating. Not just the elite assaulting groomed children.
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:22 PM   #69
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I think a lot of people get sucked into the “world elite” story line of this. Despite the allure of the celebrity names attached to Epstein, human trafficking (adult or children) and the grooming for sexual assault happens frequently in the city and country, with people from all walks of life participating. Not just the elite assaulting groomed children.
100%. The world elite stuff has more to do with a broader issue of conspiracy theorists that seek to find order and masterminds in a world of chaos that they don't feel comfortable in, imo.
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Old 12-03-2021, 06:57 AM   #70
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People are more concerned with the world elites because those are the people Epstein was primarily targeting and the implications of the worlds elites being in the pocket of of evil pedophiles impacts everyone a lot more than regular pedophilia.
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Old 12-03-2021, 07:33 AM   #71
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Well, for the majority of us serfs maybe getting a new TV, motorbike or something similar is exciting and a big day.

When you have a fleet of yachts, maybe a new plasma tv doesn't turn your crank, so you collect sex slaves like Pokémon?
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:35 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by jar_e View Post
I think a lot of people get sucked into the “world elite” story line of this. Despite the allure of the celebrity names attached to Epstein, human trafficking (adult or children) and the grooming for sexual assault happens frequently in the city and country, with people from all walks of life participating. Not just the elite assaulting groomed children.
However in this case Epstein associated with the elite, which is why the connection is being made.
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:15 AM   #73
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People are more concerned with the world elites because those are the people Epstein was primarily targeting and the implications of the worlds elites being in the pocket of of evil pedophiles impacts everyone a lot more than regular pedophilia.
There will be no real justice meted out as a result.
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Old 12-03-2021, 09:34 AM   #74
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Any thread about world elites and pedophilia would be remiss without a reminder that Jimmy Saville existed, was very close to the royal family and the community of English elites. The BBC protected his legacy well into the 2000s even when it was becoming very clear he was the UKs most prolific pedophile.

You don't even have to go beyond his wiki page to get content that makes you want to vomit all day long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile


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Old 12-03-2021, 10:03 AM   #75
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Well that can't be true. Prince Charles thought he was the best.

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Charles reportedly sent him a box of cigars and a pair of gold cufflinks on his 80th birthday with a note that read: "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country Jimmy. This is to go some way in thanking you for that."
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...prince-charles
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Old 12-03-2021, 10:09 AM   #76
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Jeffrey Epstein's access to the Clinton White House has been laid bare by visitor logs exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com, which reveal the pedophile visited at least 17 times during the former president's first few years in office.

Epstein, who died in 2019, visited Bill Clinton at the Executive Mansion over the course of three years with the first invitation coming just a month after his inauguration in January 1993.

The logs show the late financier showed up on 14 separate days, even making two visits in a single day on three different occasions.

Epstein was invited by some of Clinton's most senior advisers and aides, including one who later served as Treasury Secretary, according to records.

The documents reveal that the vast majority of Epstein's visits stated that he was going to the West Wing, meaning there was a strong likelihood he was meeting Clinton.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Clinton.html
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Old 12-03-2021, 12:21 PM   #77
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Well that can't be true. Prince Charles thought he was the best.



https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...prince-charles
The Royals are pieces of ####, not surprise here.
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Old 12-05-2021, 09:41 AM   #78
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Gates has “done his best to minimise his connections” with the disgraced billionaire, The New York Times (NYT) reported, telling the WSJ in April: “I didn’t have any business relationship or friendship with him.”

However, the NYT found that “beginning in 2011”, he “met with Epstein on numerous occasions”, including “at least three times at Epstein’s palatial Manhattan townhouse, and at least once staying late into the night”. This allegation is supported by an upcoming book by Miami Herald investigative journalist Julie Brown.

Employees of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation “also paid multiple visits to Epstein’s mansion”, the paper added, while “Epstein spoke with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and JPMorgan Chase about a proposed multibillion-dollar charitable fund”.

The Gates’ charitable foundation has “championed the well-being of young girls”, the NYT said. But at the point at which the meetings began, Epstein had already served jail time for soliciting prostitution from a minor and was registered as a sex offender.

In mid-May, The Daily Beast reported that Gates sought Epstein’s advice “on ending his marriage with Melinda after the Microsoft co-founder complained about her during a series of meetings at the money manager’s mansion”.

A person familiar with the meetings told the site that “going to Jeffrey’s was a respite from his marriage. It was a way of getting away from Melinda”. They added that Gates and Epstein “were very close”.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world...stein-examined

Probably nothing.
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Old 12-05-2021, 01:35 PM   #79
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So in your mind anyone that ever associated with Epstein is a pedo?
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Old 12-05-2021, 03:49 PM   #80
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No. But the people who associated with him that closely obviously knew what was going on and were okay with it.

Did you read the article? Melinda Gates hated that her husband had anything to do with Epstein. Didn't stop ol Bill though.
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