Just to clarify, the AR15 does not have a single-shot and semi-auto selector, it only has a safety switch (i.e. Safe and Fire). It's a single-shot auto-loading rifle. One trigger pull, one round down-range.
Just to clarify, the AR15 does not have a single-shot and semi-auto selector, it only has a safety switch (i.e. Safe and Fire). It's a single-shot auto-loading rifle. One trigger pull, one round down-range.
that is semi auto, one shot per trigger pull, but you can get off over 60 to 100 rounds a minute if you have the magazine
NewEra, the m14 and m1a is not an incredibly accurate rifle. Baseline for an acceptable rack grade rifle for the US military was 7 moa. Minute of pie plate. Chasing accuracy out of that platform requires specific knowledge and deep pockets. Kick like a mule is not how I would describe it at all, not even close. Far less kick than the same round out of grandadddies m700 bolt.
The one I shot was accurate as hell, considering the vintage and the iron sights. Able to cover a quarter at 200 yards all day while sand bagged. And yes, the damn think kicks like crazy, compared to my Ruger Precision .308. Still a great gun to shoot and one I'd happily add to the collection.
The British Soldiers in the early 1900's had to participate in the mad minute shooting drill. The minimum requirement to pass was 10 aimed round in a minute and that's with a 5 round top loading clip.
The World Record for accurate firing of a bolt action rifle is 36 rounds in a minute using the same Lee Enfield bolt action rifle.
But you're right about a couple of things. With a semi automatic rifle, and an easy to reload magazine feed, you can keep you're eyes downfield and very quickly get back in battery.
I will add, that as much fun as it was to fire a fully automatic SMG in the army or the cranky as hell FN-C2 Squad weapon, Fully Automatic fire tends to be really inefficient as its next to impossible to control the weapon accurately after the first three rounds and you tend to find yourself punching holes in the horizon.
I always preferred a single shot semi automatic because you could conserve ammunition which is important considering that you have to carry ammunition. And after every shot you could adjust down field very quickly.
i'd agree with the inaccuracy of the auto fire - the LV shooter shot thousands of rounds using the bump stock and 'only' killed 52 people (granted at distance) and was just relying on the rounds and/or velocity of the rounds to inflict sufficient damage to raise the body count... an assumption on my part of course as the guy was killed.
however, i would imagine that it is a huge difference between trained operators and the majority of the people involved in the mass shootings.
they are looking big groups of crowds and just using a 'spray and pray' approach...they don't have to be a 'good' marksman or conserve ammo - they are just looking to do as much harm to as many people as possible in as quick a time as possible.
they are looking big groups of crowds and just using a 'spray and pray' approach...they don't have to be a 'good' marksman or conserve ammo - they are just looking to do as much harm to as many people as possible in as quick a time as possible.
Yep, that's consistent with the outcomes of these shootings in crowded areas. Was discussing both shootings earlier today with the commander of our police force and his comment was similar to yours. Thankfully these guys weren't skilled or the outcome would have been much worse. These guys are out to terrify people as much as they are to kill people. The psychological damage they inflict on survivors is probably more devastating than the bodies they leave in their wake.
The British Soldiers in the early 1900's had to participate in the mad minute shooting drill. The minimum requirement to pass was 10 aimed round in a minute and that's with a 5 round top loading clip.
The World Record for accurate firing of a bolt action rifle is 36 rounds in a minute using the same Lee Enfield bolt action rifle.
But you're right about a couple of things. With a semi automatic rifle, and an easy to reload magazine feed, you can keep you're eyes downfield and very quickly get back in battery.
I will add, that as much fun as it was to fire a fully automatic SMG in the army or the cranky as hell FN-C2 Squad weapon, Fully Automatic fire tends to be really inefficient as its next to impossible to control the weapon accurately after the first three rounds and you tend to find yourself punching holes in the horizon.
I always preferred a single shot semi automatic because you could conserve ammunition which is important considering that you have to carry ammunition. And after every shot you could adjust down field very quickly.
The Lee Enfield was probably the quickest bolt action to fire but firing at a stationary target you already have a bearing on as quickly as you can is way different from reloading then having to find a target to aim at shoot and repeat, that would be significantly slower.
Yep, that's consistent with the outcomes of these shootings in crowded areas. Was discussing both shootings earlier today with the commander of our police force and his comment was similar to yours. Thankfully these guys weren't skilled or the outcome would have been much worse. These guys are out to terrify people as much as they are to kill people. The psychological damage they inflict on survivors is probably more devastating than the bodies they leave in their wake.
agreed wholeheartedly...
i guess that begs the question about whether the police forces are able to handle these types of threats... the SWAT teams would definitely be, but regular beat patrol cops seem like they would be severely under powered...
i am asking as someone that doesn't have knowledge, but are AR-15s able to penetrate body armor? i had assumed that they had some armor piercing ability?
i guess that begs the question about whether the police forces are able to handle these types of threats... the SWAT teams would definitely be, but regular beat patrol cops seem like they would be severely under powered...
i am asking as someone that doesn't have knowledge, but are AR-15s able to penetrate body armor? i had assumed that they had some armor piercing ability?
Depends on the type of body armor we're talking about here. For example, I read about testing the body armor that the New York state police used and it failed to stop a round fired from an AR-15, however a competing body armor stopped it.
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i guess that begs the question about whether the police forces are able to handle these types of threats... the SWAT teams would definitely be, but regular beat patrol cops seem like they would be severely under powered...
i am asking as someone that doesn't have knowledge, but are AR-15s able to penetrate body armor? i had assumed that they had some armor piercing ability?
Depends on the type of body armor. Level III body armor is rated to stop multiple .308 rounds and maintain integrity. The problem is that level III body armor is expensive and heavy. Considering that a beat cop is carrying around a load of 25-40 pounds of gear, adding another 10-15 pounds of body armor plates is tough thing for an officer to swallow both from a weight and mobility perspective. Unless they are going to be thrust into a scenario where they are facing the threat of such weapons daily, and it sounds like we are getting there, the cost (fiscal and performance) can be a tough one to weigh.
Depends on the type of body armor we're talking about here. For example, I read about testing the body armor that the New York state police used and it failed to stop a round fired from an AR-15, however a competing body armor stopped it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Depends on the type of body armor. Level III body armor is rated to stop multiple .308 rounds and maintain integrity. The problem is that level III body armor is expensive and heavy. Considering that a beat cop is carrying around a load of 25-40 pounds of gear, adding another 10-15 pounds of body armor plates is tough thing for an officer to swallow both from a weight and mobility perspective. Unless they are going to be thrust into a scenario where they are facing the threat of such weapons daily, and it sounds like we are getting there, the cost (fiscal and performance) can be a tough one to weigh.
thanks... interesting to know. would ARs go through car doors? just curious if a cop were to face someone without any forewarning you would be scrambling for protection
strange times we live in...
i remember the LA incident a number of years ago that was caught on tape where the two armed robbers had full body armor and took a long time to take down
based on some of the video from Dayton, the shooter who was wearing body armor of some time was a split second from entering a bar when he was shot...was a heckuva shot too as the shooter was also running and turning a corner when he got him.
presumably all types of body armor are readily available to civilians in the states too.
The tech fall out on these latest shootings are rather fascinating. Cloudflare dropped 8chan after the El Paso shooting. They went to another provider that is used by other white supremacist websites. However, once people figured out that BitMitigate/Epik was leasing its infrastructure from another company, that third company fired BitMitigate/Epik. Which, in turn, punted 8chan off the easily accessible internet. And with it went The Daily Stormer and perhaps even Gab.
They will all end up easily available with someone at some point - if they aren't already - but even if the American government won't do anything about these issues, private companies are becoming more willing to deplatform bad actors.
Last edited by Resolute 14; 08-06-2019 at 08:29 AM.
thanks... interesting to know. would ARs go through car doors? just curious if a cop were to face someone without any forewarning you would be scrambling for protection
strange times we live in...
i remember the LA incident a number of years ago that was caught on tape where the two armed robbers had full body armor and took a long time to take down
based on some of the video from Dayton, the shooter who was wearing body armor of some time was a split second from entering a bar when he was shot...was a heckuva shot too as the shooter was also running and turning a corner when he got him.
presumably all types of body armor are readily available to civilians in the states too.
A Remington 223/NATO 5.56 round is a high-velocity round, and assuming an FMJ (full metal jacket) projectile is used, which is most common and cheapest, it would most likely go through a car door at sub-300 yards.
At our range we're not allowed to shoot a 223/5.56 round at an "abrasion resistant" AR500 steel plate (heavy armor plate) at anything less than 200 yards due to high velocity and ricochet danger. Mild steel sheet metal, like car doors doesn't stand a chance, IMHO.
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The tech fall out on these latest shootings are rather fascinating. Cloudflare dropped 8chan after the El Paso shooting. They went to another provider that is used by other white supremacist websites. However, once people figured out that BitMitigate/Epik was leasing its infrastructure from another company, that third company fired BitMitigate/Epik. Which, in turn, punted 8chan off the easily accessible internet. And with it went The Daily Stormer and perhaps even Gab.
They will all end up easily available with someone at some point - if they aren't already - but even if the American government won't do anything about these issues, private companies are becoming more willing to deplatform bad actors.
Yes. That. Also.
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thanks... interesting to know. would ARs go through car doors? just curious if a cop were to face someone without any forewarning you would be scrambling for protection
strange times we live in...
i remember the LA incident a number of years ago that was caught on tape where the two armed robbers had full body armor and took a long time to take down
based on some of the video from Dayton, the shooter who was wearing body armor of some time was a split second from entering a bar when he was shot...was a heckuva shot too as the shooter was also running and turning a corner when he got him.
presumably all types of body armor are readily available to civilians in the states too.
a cop would be taught to try and get behind the engine block not just the door
I enjoy learning about the historical significance of WWII, but that doesn’t mean I can collect a working tank or a hydrogen bomb.
Lol well that's quite the apples to oranges jump you made there. Can't get a hydrogen bomb for $200 and store it in your closet...
Either way, I'm also a fan of WW2. I own 3 guns from the conflict. I also own two AR15s. I enjoy them for the historical significance. I like looking at them,taking them apart, and occasionally target shooting. Obviously I'm against banning guns.
There's lots of historically significant and interesting guns I'd love to own that are already banned which is quite unfortunate. Like the FAL and AK47.
I could absolutely get behind banning lethal bullets though
