Burke on TSN 1050: “Toronto media wants teams to fail.”

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

And your point? Rather see the issues than be a blind homer like Oiler fans.

The problem is... all you see is issues.

The Flames could go 82-0 and sweep their way to winning the Stanley Cup and you'd complain how their "celebration was too immature" or "their defense that one time was really bad and led to a scoring chance against" or "x player blinked at the wrong time which let an opposing player get an extra step"

There's a few people on this board who just complain and complain and complain. I can't decide if it's hilarious, sad, or disgraceful.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I don't remember Peter Maher ever criticizing a player. It might have happened but certainly not often or harshly enough that Wills should be getting heat over the comparison.

It might just be me, but I don't really expect the play-by-play guy to go on the radio and call out players for under-performing. A columnist or analyst is a bit different in my mind because their role is to discuss the performance of the team and stir up discussion. Since I don't see this as his role, I think it is pretty reasonable that he wouldn't want to do it when these are players he sees every day and travels with.

Agreed. Peter Maher never criticized a player. It's simply not the job of the PBP person to call out players

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Burke is to the media as Trump is to the media. No shocker he believes this. He's always disliked the media and Calgary media are for the most part way too soft and don't ask any tough questions.

Derek Wills is the biggest homer in Calgary as are some other guys on fan960.

Really? We made it 3 posts before someone posts about Trump. #### guys stay on topic.

[Caged Great]

As a quasi media person myself, I have been critical when it has been warranted like with coaching decisions this year, but there are certain situations that aren't easily fixable. Say like Wideman's contract last year or to a lesser extent Stajan's this year. Neither player was or is an NHL regular any more and is taking up huge amounts of cap space relative to their position. Is there any way to fix that? not without surrendering a 1st or more. So why be critical of something that isn't fixable without being stupid. Just have to wait until it can be fixed, which usually means either a buyout like Bouma or a simple waiting out of the clock and then you move on like with Wideman and Stajan.

If I was acting more like a Toronto media person, I'd be ripping Bennett + Giordano etc for not producing and that they should be moved as soon as possible because they are terrible. Never mind they are going through a cold spell that will likely end sooner than later and they'll likely go on a protracted hot streak because that's what happens in normal situations with talented players. It's fine to want results now. I am personally expecting this team to win the division and to be one of the main contenders for the cup. If they go out in the first round, especially if they end up facing Edmonton/Anaheim in round 1 instead of the wild card team, I'll be extremely critical of whatever is the likely cause. Nobody has a crystal ball though, you just have to wait and see what's going to happen and react to that.

[Hanna Sniper]

I somewhat remember a radio interview from the summer (or previous) where the topic was the Toronto media has become of the Montreal media of the past

What the topic was was how the old Montreal media had become so bitter and entrenched from fighting with the organizations or years that everything was negative and how things changes were these old guys retiring and new blood coming up and taking those job. the new reports had fresh perspectives and without grudges

The Montreal media starting having a fresh positive look to itself with the old guard gone while the Toronto media was still aging and entrenched in their bitterness

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

He truly is. I feel he is the Flames mouthpiece. This guy never seems to bash or criticize Brouwer, Bennett et al. He refers to Brouwer as a "puck retriever" on the powerplay and its pretty ridiculous. Seems like a puppet for the ownership if you ask me. Anyways, didn't mean to derail the thread, just thought I would chime in on Wills as he was brought up. Most of us probably took Peter Maher for granted, and now we realize how good we actually had it. We are lucky to have grown up with Maher & Whalen as the Flames voices.

Well, that is actually his job. Derek Wills is an employee of the Calgary Flames.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Most play by play guys are homers to some extent, although overall I'm not a huge fan of Wills' work.
However I would disagree that the rest of the Fan guys are homers. Part of their jobs though is to make fans excited about the games and the team. If people aren't excited, why would they listen to hours of programming each day centred on the team.

But overall I think guys like Steinberg and Kerr offer a pretty balanced view of what is happening with the team.

When Willa first came to Calgary I was not a fan of his, but I must admit he is starting to grow on me.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Well, that is actually his job. Derek Wills is an employee of the Calgary Flames.

Isn't he an employee of SN?

[Tinordi]

Burke mostly has himself to blame for the treatment in Toronto. Sure it's not a friendly media environment but Burke came in there believing his own press clippings as the best GM in the league and it completely blew up in his face.

Burke was on the front lines of the reckoning that was the salary cap and the NHL's concerted effort to eliminate parts of the game that Burke held so dear. On the latter, he constructed teams that were totally unaligned with where the NHL was going. All this nonsense about truculence saw Burke building a team that would have been successful a decade earlier. Instead his teams were too slow and unskilled to compete. On the former, he traded away his most valuable assets, picks and cap flexibility, for pennies on the dollar.

In the end, Burke was exposed as a GM from another era that couldn't grow with the times. His record in Toronto speaks for itself as does his record as head of Hockey USA. And he got a rough ride in the media for it. Personality wise he wears a lot of that. He was loathed by the time he left Vancouver too. It just happens he finds himself in Calgary with a regimen of supplicants feeding off Ken King's good graces as a media boss that he thinks that Calgary is normal.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Burke mostly has himself to blame for the treatment in Toronto. Sure it's not a friendly media environment but Burke came in there believing his own press clippings as the best GM in the league and it completely blew up in his face.

Burke was on the front lines of the reckoning that was the salary cap and the NHL's concerted effort to eliminate parts of the game that Burke held so dear. On the latter, he constructed teams that were totally unaligned with where the NHL was going. All this nonsense about truculence saw Burke building a team that would have been successful a decade earlier. Instead his teams were too slow and unskilled to compete. On the former, he traded away his most valuable assets, picks and cap flexibility, for pennies on the dollar.

In the end, Burke was exposed as a GM from another era that couldn't grow with the times. His record in Toronto speaks for itself as does his record as head of Hockey USA. And he got a rough ride in the media for it. Personality wise he wears a lot of that. He was loathed by the time he left Vancouver too. It just happens he finds himself in Calgary with a regimen of supplicants feeding off Ken King's good graces as a media boss that he thinks that Calgary is normal.

Right... just like it was the fault of Phil Kessel, Randy Carlisle, Larry Murphy & a litany other players Toronto media has run out of town on a rail.

So... Anaheim didn’t win the cup in 2007? The core of Burke’s Vancouver team didn’t go to the final in 2011? A large part of Burke’s Toronto team isn’t around?

Please get your facts straight and away of your obvious detest of Burke. Hate him if you want but bring some evidence to support your argument please.

[Erick Estrada]

Burke deserves criticism but he's proven to be a much better than average GM over his career. Maybe below average at the draft table but arguably the best GM ever at trades. The Kessel trade was probably one of his worst but even at that the player himself led the Leafs in scoring over his tenure so it's not like a Gary Leeman for Doug Gilmour trade and don't forget Burke got a 1st & Joe Colborne back from Boston for a broken down Thomas Kaberle who couldn't even play. You look at most of his trades over the years and he probably comes out on top of most.

[Flamenspiel]

In addition he engineered the Sedin pick and trade for the other brother. They were certainly not truculent players but to our chagrin, made Vancouver a contender for years to come.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by jammies

Having a different view IS bias. Some folks seem to have a hard time understanding that. Agreeing with someone's - or, in the case of the Flames/CSEC, some entity's - position is demonstrating bias in their favour.

There is no such thing as an "objective" opinion. There are rational and irrational opinions, that's all. If you clearly stand to gain from arguing your position, people will assume you are arguing from rational self-interest, and trying to obfuscate or deny it, even if you feel you really aren't, is both unconvincing and naive.

Why bother? Just acknowledge that you aren't objective, but explain your rationale, which is far more effective than whining about how people don't understand your truly disinterested perspective. Nobody cares if you think you can see both sides, especially when you then proceed to clearly take one side over the other.

FFS. Can the six or seven of you leave this circle argument to another thread?

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Here's what, in my opinion, one of the dumber guys in the toronto/canadian sports media realm think:

[URL="https://twitter.com/DamoSpin"]

I think burke's involvement with the leafs will be looked at as a negative period for the team. The move to trade 2 x 1st round picks for a non-franchise player, especially when the leafs were not a lock to be a team on the rise, and it essentially blowing up in his face really left burke looking like a very poor GM here. He made some other great trades (JVR for schenn, the phaneuf trade, the kaberle trade, the Beachamin trade), but for the leaf fans/media, there is no discussion, he f'd it all up.

The leafs' (and therefore Burke's) biggest downfall was the unwillingness to go full rebuild, and think that the fans of the city wouldn't be able to stomach it. Even though the media were always critical of the leafs not going that route. So yes, i do believe the leaf media here were like wolves and were critical of the leafs' to the point where i think they were happier to see the team fail just so that they could say i told you so.

The leafs are now media darlings in toronto in my opinion. Shanahan can do no wrong. He was right in getting Lou as the GM, and Babcock as their Coach, and between the 3 of them, i don't think there has been a single point of contention/cynicism for a move made/not-made. Right or wrong, the new management was willing to go full rebuild, and to date that plan looks PERFECT given that they have a core built around Mathews, who actually looks more valuable to a team's general success than "generational talent" Mcdavid.

It's amazing to think how different the leafs would have turned out if they somehow didn't win the draft and came out with Laine or Dubois out of their bottoming out season.

Still pretty damn good?

Matthews is better than Laine but I think the Leafs would be just fine if their Big 3 was Laine Marner and Nylander.

[savemedrzaius]

The Trump to Burke comparison is completely reasonable. Both are huge blowhards. Play up their brand and personality over their substance. Burke was an okay GM for the Leafs. Made some great trades and awful trades.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Burke is to the media as Trump is to the media. No shocker he believes this. He's always disliked the media and Calgary media are for the most part way too soft and don't ask any tough questions.

Derek Wills is the biggest homer in Calgary as are some other guys on fan960.

The homerism isn't even close to those Canadian markets.

Not even close.

It's more a cheerleader approach by a select few, with others being pretty impartial, rather than the easily obnoxious medias of Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal markets. At one time it was that way in Vancouver too. The same overconfident groups demonize very quickly and easily on the flip side.

In Calgary it seems like expectations are quite tempered in comparison, and in both senses. Francis is of course in the Flames pocket and Wills always has his pom poms out, but 960 and some of the writers are typically reserved about giving the Flames a ton of credit after a few wins (sometimes annoyingly), and tend to retain a sense of cautious optimism. In Toronto and Edmonton a win streak leads to aspirations of dynasties, and it's embarrassingly stupid. But that's what cities of teams that are not used to winning get like when they suddenly get a month or a season to go their way.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

The homerism isn't even close to those Canadian markets.

Not even close.

It's more a cheerleader approach by a select few, with others being pretty impartial, rather than the easily obnoxious medias of Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal markets. At one time it was that way in Vancouver too. The same overconfident groups demonize very quickly and easily on the flip side.

In Calgary it seems like expectations are quite tempered in comparison, and in both senses. Francis is of course in the Flames pocket and Wills always has his pom poms out, but 960 and some of the writers are typically reserved about giving the Flames a ton of credit after a few wins (sometimes annoyingly), and tend to retain a sense of cautious optimism. In Toronto and Edmonton a win streak leads to aspirations of dynasties, and it's embarrassingly stupid. But that's what cities of teams that are not used to winning get like when they suddenly get a month or a season to go their way.

???? Flames are used to winning ????

I don't know what your media is like but the Leafs coverage can get damn toxic when they are playing poorly.

I feel like every fanbases media gets pretty high when the team is playing well for a while. I watched the 3rd period of the Flames game tonight and they seemed quite content. Way more positive than any Leafs coverage I've heard this season.

[rotten42]

The fact the Burke is so polarising is why I like him. He says some insightful stuff and in the same breath says something stupid or controversial. That is so much better entertainment than the usual fair.