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Old 09-12-2017, 09:30 AM   #3241
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IMO, CFL football is the most exciting form of football. Of course, The NFL has better quality athletes, but NCAA certainly doesn't.

When you have a 9 team league, and half of those in any given season have poor management/fans/whatever, it's hard to build excitement for the league as a whole. Playing at decent stadiums league wide is certainly important, and most teams have done that. Does McMahon need some work? Of course. But, as has been said, indoor is terrible for football here in Calgary, and a retractable roof is prohibitively expensive. McMahon can be decently modernized for much less than a new stadium. The challenge is to try to get more events into it to help justify the cost.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:38 AM   #3242
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The problem with the CFL is that its Canadian. The younger generation are much more ingrained in American culture and want to be more like Americans. They follow the NFL because it is inherently American, built up on hype and spectacle.

I agree with Tyler that the stadium needs to be part of the fieldhouse concept. It just makes more economic sense. The CFL is a niche sport, and as a result of that, the city would be stupid to make an investment in a facility that is not multi-use. I still contend that the fieldhouse should be someplace that allows for possible concert use as well. Unless the politics of University Heights has changed, that location remains extremely unattractive IMO.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:39 AM   #3243
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I think the diminishing lack of interest in the CFL is why you need to build a field house instead of a stand-alone stadium. That will probably be the only way this get's done in the near future. For that reason, this will have to have a roof.
I think the diminishing lack of interest in the CFL is why the optimal economic choice is to modestly renovate McMahon and then just build a regular old field house like it was meant to be.

My proposed renovations would include:
-Gut the east concourse and expand it out into the parking lot
-Gut the west concourse and expand it out off the hill. This will involve some more civil/structural scope since the hill drops off pretty hard towards that west parking lot
-Renovate both spaces to include better traffic flow, better food and beverages options, and better washrooms
-Install freaking credit card payment
-Figure out how to replace the bench seating with actual seats. This one will not as simple as just bolting in seats because I believe the underlying concrete "steps" are too shallow to simply bolt on seats and leave any semblance of leg room. Maybe there's low profile seats out there. At worst it would mean bolting some sort of base structure on top of the concrete that the seats and rows would then sit on.
-No covered overhangs. I don't think they're worth the money.

That is not $80M-$100M. It is also a bit of lipstick on a pig, but that lipstick would knock off the four biggest complaints about McMahon (the metal benches suck, the concourses are terribly laid out, the food & beverage options are third world, can't pay with credit card)

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Old 09-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #3244
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^^

Yep, also an option
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:47 AM   #3245
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I know some people love watching outdoors but the top NFL stadiums are indoor or retractable roof and nobody in Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Atlanta, Dallas, Texas, Detroit, New Orleans, LA (new stadium), Las Vegas (new stadium) are complaining as football isn't the same as baseball where you go to sit outside on a summer night with a hot dog and beer to watch a leisurely paced game of baseball.
Football is massively more popular in the U.S. than here. So yeah, they have no problem filling indoor stadiums.

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I think the majority of younger fans in this city probably go to one game a year as a fun thing to do on a random sunny afternoon. They aren't CFL fans - they are sitting outside and drinking on a sunny day fans.
This. Look around you next time you're at a CFL game, Estrada. Do even half the people there strike you as serious football fans? They're 18 to 28 year olds out to have a few beer in the sun and make some noise. When I was that age, I went to 3 or 4 games a year. It's a cheap fun in the sun. Since then, I've gone to maybe one game every two years. Now that my kids are old enough, I'll probably take them to a game or two a year on nice August/Sept days. They'll cheer and have fun, even though they don't follow the CFL.

If the Stamps moved to an indoor stadium, I would probably never go to another game. This isn't the U.S. The fanbase is completely different.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:48 AM   #3246
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I would renovate McMahon.

Take out the red towers, put a new exterior facade that extends up to create a bit of a roof over the stands, remove some of the high corner seats that are almost always empty, add a fun endzone section at one end, replace all the seats, create a new/expanded concourse within the new exterior facade. Profit.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:52 AM   #3247
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An indoor stadium is not going to sustainably attract a younger fan. Once you move it indoors you're making it exclusively about the football and let's be honest, it's an inferior level of football in most people's eyes. Indoors it will just look like bad NFL to them. Sure it might work for a season or two but it will not work long term.

And again, there are about 3 games at risk of freezing your butt off. You make it out to seem like it's every game or even a majority of games.
Plus, when we were kids we played outside in a snowbank in -30 as if it were July. It's the small fraction of society that are middle age wimps that can't survive a 3 hour game in warm clothing with a hot chocolate or three. Those are the people who's kids don't get to go.

Football is an outdoor sport. Be an outdoor fan, not a part-time fan.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:55 AM   #3248
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The problem with the CFL is that its Canadian. The younger generation are much more ingrained in American culture and want to be more like Americans. They follow the NFL because it is inherently American, built up on hype and spectacle.
I follow the NFL because it has better players. Just like people follow European soccer leagues over MLS - because it has better players. Nothing to do with where it is being played.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:56 AM   #3249
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I heard on the Fan that the CFL is looking into making the balls the same size as the NFL to increase scoring. being like the nfl is not negative
https://cfldb.ca/faq/equipment/
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:27 AM   #3250
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I would renovate McMahon.

Take out the red towers, put a new exterior facade that extends up to create a bit of a roof over the stands, remove some of the high corner seats that are almost always empty, add a fun endzone section at one end, replace all the seats, create a new/expanded concourse within the new exterior facade. Profit.
I thought about the fun end zone section but I'm just not sure it makes sense. The Stamps already struggle to sell out 35k so adding more seats doesn't really make sense. It would just cause the top to be emptier as is. Seems like an uneconomic spend of money. And how do you remove seats from a concrete structure...tarps (yuck)?

If you're going to do something on an end zone I'd imagine it would be smarter to just have it be additional concourse facilities without the expensive vertical construction of putting more seats above it.

Off the north end that would involve building in more integration with the Red & White club and messing with it's current membership structure. Off the south end that could involve building out into the parking lot with completely new dressing rooms underneath. Both sound appealing but might be uneconomic investments I think.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:12 AM   #3251
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I follow the NFL because it has better players. Just like people follow European soccer leagues over MLS - because it has better players. Nothing to do with where it is being played.
The CFL has better rules though. Who wants to see a team run out the clock kneeling down for the final 3 minutes of a game.

I know for sure i'm in the minority but I've watched the most CFL on TSN in years. Not sure why so many hate the CFL when your only other options in the summer is baseball and soccer. Both completely terrible sports.

Move up the schedule a month and it would solve a lot of problems.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:22 AM   #3252
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When it comes to renovating McMahon, which makes the most sense economically, I would removed the top section (bench seats) on both sides of the stands. Calgary doesn't need a +30K stadium, so that could shave a few thousand right there. Replace these seats with new press boxes and luxury seats.

The nosebleeds seats could be replaced by putting endzone seating on the north side/grassy area. The south side of the stadium should have a concourse walk way that connects that east and west stands. This area could also be a standing/patio section.

The university would prefer to demolish the stadium so they could capitalize on TOD development for that area, but if the stadium is to stay, then commercial and residential development should occupy the residual parking area. Leave a bit of appropriate space though for a plaza on the eastern entrance.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:00 PM   #3253
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I follow the NFL because it has better players. Just like people follow European soccer leagues over MLS - because it has better players. Nothing to do with where it is being played.
There are many well supported soccer clubs or college football teams in various leauges that do not have the best players on earth. The support for clubs in any sport come down to three main categories:

1) History - (the CFL has a respectable one)
2) City/Provincial pride - (in Canada, the smaller the city the more pride a fan base seems to have)
3) Family culture - (ex. if your parents/grandparents had the games on TV or went to the game and tailgated, or had grey cup parties, then that culture is passed down and it builds every generation thereafter)

College Football has all of these things, and their support has nothing to do with the quality of the players.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:09 PM   #3254
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I follow the NFL because 3 down football with objectively worse players is something you couldn't pay me to watch. Actually, the only reason I have ever gone to stamps games is free tickets and beer, so you can bribe me to attend in person. There are few things I can think of that cause me more boredom than watching a CFL game
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:17 PM   #3255
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The problem with the CFL is that its Canadian. The younger generation are much more ingrained in American culture and want to be more like Americans. They follow the NFL because it is inherently American, built up on hype and spectacle.

I agree with Tyler that the stadium needs to be part of the fieldhouse concept. It just makes more economic sense. The CFL is a niche sport, and as a result of that, the city would be stupid to make an investment in a facility that is not multi-use. I still contend that the fieldhouse should be someplace that allows for possible concert use as well. Unless the politics of University Heights has changed, that location remains extremely unattractive IMO.
lol
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:22 PM   #3256
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I follow the NFL because 3 down football with objectively worse players is something you couldn't pay me to watch. Actually, the only reason I have ever gone to stamps games is free tickets and beer, so you can bribe me to attend in person. There are few things I can think of that cause me more boredom than watching a CFL game
Exactly like the Saddledome on any given night with corporate entertaining.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:27 PM   #3257
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The CFL has better rules though. Who wants to see a team run out the clock kneeling down for the final 3 minutes of a game.

I know for sure i'm in the minority but I've watched the most CFL on TSN in years. Not sure why so many hate the CFL when your only other options in the summer is baseball and soccer. Both completely terrible sports.

Move up the schedule a month and it would solve a lot of problems.
have you just been watching on tv or have you actually gone to the games? I think most people now are content to watch on tv and don't want the hassle and cost of going to a game.
not going to be a league to watch if the amount of people willing to pay for the product ages out and disappears.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:39 PM   #3258
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I think the majority of younger fans in this city probably go to one game a year as a fun thing to do on a random sunny afternoon. They aren't CFL fans - they are sitting outside and drinking on a sunny day fans.
100% this. A nice sunny day, buy some tickets and crack a few cold ones with the boys.

I've been to quite a few playoff games in the winter too. -30 etc. I don't mind it, just dress for it. Those are fun crowds.

I've been to about a dozen NFL stadiums and the outdoor ones are FAR better experience. Even retractable roof stadiums like Houston, Indianapolis, Phoenix etc. are domes and feel every bit as much.

Games at Soldier Field, Foxboro - those were some of the best, even in cold weather.

I go on a baseball trip every year with a group of friends and we avoid domes at all cost.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:44 PM   #3259
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The problem with the CFL is that its Canadian. The younger generation are much more ingrained in American culture and want to be more like Americans. They follow the NFL because it is inherently American, built up on hype and spectacle.
I wouldn't say this at all.

the "younger generation" is far more global and will flock to the sport that provides, to them, the most entertainment. That generally means the best players in the sport, whether that is hockey, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, anything.

You can see it with the Flames even on this board. There are Flames fans from Czechia and Southern US.

Watching this stuff is also far more accessible than before. I can literally sit at work and watch Man U play Liverpool as i work. Since when has the "older generation" had/taken that opportunity?
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:48 PM   #3260
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I thought about the fun end zone section but I'm just not sure it makes sense. The Stamps already struggle to sell out 35k so adding more seats doesn't really make sense. It would just cause the top to be emptier as is. Seems like an uneconomic spend of money. And how do you remove seats from a concrete structure...tarps (yuck)?
One word: THIS http://blogs.denverpost.com/food/201...ination/23440/



Something like this abutted against one of the end zones would instantly make me a regular Stamps attendee.
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