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Old 10-17-2016, 01:01 PM   #21
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I think the discussion here isn't about the 20 yr old, but should be about the 18 yr old.
I disagree, if Bennett is the center on that line he needs to be the most responsible one on that line. Tkachuk is doing his job in the offensive zone but Bennett is the one that's getting caught a lot behind the net and not supporting his d-men up the ice. He always seems to be one of the last forwards back which shouldn't be the case.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:04 PM   #22
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This guy seems insane.
Ban him...now.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
Pretty sure I am calm. Did you read the OP? it's simply a point of discussion on a discussion board. We don't need to wait a month to discuss things like this.

Bennett doesn't have much experience playing center at the NHL level and to add to that he has the responsibility of an 18 year old rookie on his wing as well. That is setting himself up for failure.
Then how does one gain experience at center in the NHL? I'd love to hear how to do it without playing center in the NHL?
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:30 PM   #24
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Then how does one gain experience at center in the NHL? I'd love to hear how to do it without playing center in the NHL?
By playing center at the NHL level along side other defensive minded wingers not an 18 year old rookie. And my point hasn't been that he has no experience playing center.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:31 PM   #25
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I've thought about this also. If Verseeg can't get any chemistry going with top line i would do the following:

Johnny-Mony-Brouwer
Bennet-Backs-Frolic

The problem becomes who could center the 3rd line? I like the Stajan 4th line as is. Don't think Hamilton can do it.
Jankowski after he gets some AHL experience in?
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:42 PM   #26
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*sigh*

The problem with this thread is it's based on an eye test that doesn't match what actually happened on the ice. It is biased by OP's opinion. So every isolated incident that fits the narrative gets magnified. Every event that does not fit the narrative gets forgotten or ignored.

Here are some relevant individual stats for our centers:



Based on the shot attempts he has taken, Bennett has been the second most likely to score a goal (ixG60) for every minute on the ice, has less giveaways than Monahan, and a better faceoff percentage than Monahan.

OP also suggested he is being "thrown to the wolves" and not sheltered. The data disagrees:



Bennett has not had the worst quality of teammates (Stajan, Backlund, and Monahan have by the different metrics). Nor has he had the highest quality of competition (Monahan has faced the best defensemen and Backlund has faced the best forwards.). Nor has he been forced to start in the defensive zone the most and offensive zone the least (Stajan has).

On a line level, the Tkachuk-Bennett-Brouwer line has been the Calgary Flames' most effective line as a result:



They have generated the most shot attempts and unblocked shot attempts, they've taken shots closest to the net, they've had the highest expected save percentage (xFSV% / defense), the lowest expected goals against (xGA60 / defense) and as a result of all these things, are the only line on our team close to even in high danger scoring chances (SCF%) and the only line actually expected to score more goals than they allow based on the shots being taken when they are on the ice (xGF%).

TL;DR:

Maybe they're not a top line yet, but they have not been deployed like one. The way they have been deployed, they have been successful in terms of creating chances AND preventing them. Goals will follow. They will make mistakes, but nothing so far suggests they are a line that needs to be broken up or that Bennett is unsuccessful at center. If Bennett is "getting caught" so often then why are his defensive metrics the BEST on the Calgary Flames?
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 10-17-2016 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:15 PM   #27
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That should be your biggest sign that advanced stats are useless when Bennett's are better than Backlunds. The eye test is all I need.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
That should be your biggest sign that advanced stats are useless when Bennett's are better than Backlunds. The eye test is all I need.
maybe the only test that is needed is your eyes?
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
That should be your biggest sign that advanced stats are useless when Bennett's are better than Backlunds. The eye test is all I need.
"The records of what actually happened on the ice don't support my narrative. This is proof advanced stats suck!"
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:45 PM   #30
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I like him at C. I was a big proponent of putting him in the #1 RW spot, but I'm firmly on board the C-train now!
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
That should be your biggest sign that advanced stats are useless when Bennett's are better than Backlunds. The eye test is all I need.
What? Beyond nomenclature, there's nothing advanced about those stats; they're literally just documenting what is happening on the ice. Documenting and quantifying the "eye test". What's the difference?
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:05 PM   #32
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Now that's how you use advanced stats to support an argument!
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
*sigh*

The problem with this thread is it's based on an eye test that doesn't match what actually happened on the ice. It is biased by OP's opinion. So every isolated incident that fits the narrative gets magnified. Every event that does not fit the narrative gets forgotten or ignored.

Here are some relevant individual stats for our centers:



Based on the shot attempts he has taken, Bennett has been the second most likely to score a goal (ixG60) for every minute on the ice, has less giveaways than Monahan, and a better faceoff percentage than Monahan.

OP also suggested he is being "thrown to the wolves" and not sheltered. The data disagrees:



Bennett has not had the worst quality of teammates (Stajan, Backlund, and Monahan have by the different metrics). Nor has he had the highest quality of competition (Monahan has faced the best defensemen and Backlund has faced the best forwards.). Nor has he been forced to start in the defensive zone the most and offensive zone the least (Stajan has).

On a line level, the Tkachuk-Bennett-Brouwer line has been the Calgary Flames' most effective line as a result:



They have generated the most shot attempts and unblocked shot attempts, they've taken shots closest to the net, they've had the highest expected save percentage (xFSV% / defense), the lowest expected goals against (xGA60 / defense) and as a result of all these things, are the only line on our team close to even in high danger scoring chances (SCF%) and the only line actually expected to score more goals than they allow based on the shots being taken when they are on the ice (xGF%).

TL;DR:

Maybe they're not a top line yet, but they have not been deployed like one. The way they have been deployed, they have been successful in terms of creating chances AND preventing them. Goals will follow. They will make mistakes, but nothing so far suggests they are a line that needs to be broken up or that Bennett is unsuccessful at center. If Bennett is "getting caught" so often then why are his defensive metrics the BEST on the Calgary Flames?
Does this thing say Monahan has been terrible?
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug View Post
Does this thing say Monahan has been terrible?
It says so far (3 game sample size) Monahan's five man unit has been overall outplayed by whomever they've been matched to at 5-on-5. Which, based on something like this:



Sounds like a fair assessment.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:02 PM   #35
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C

another overzealous thread
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:09 PM   #36
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Gretzky Messier. Lemieux Francis. Yzerman Fedorov. Modano Nieuwendyk. Sakic Forsberg. Lecavalier Richards. Staal Brindamour. Crosby Malkin. Toews Sharp. Bergeron Krejci. Kopitar Carter.

Monahan Bennett isn't ready to join that list...yet. But they sure as hell are our best chance, and the only way we're winning a cup is if they do.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by kyuss275 View Post
I've thought about this also. If Verseeg can't get any chemistry going with top line i would do the following:

Johnny-Mony-Brouwer
Bennet-Backs-Frolic
I was thinking the same thing earlier today. Bennett/Backlund/Frolik has potential to be a great line - hardworking, fast, two-way, and skilled. Bouma is good, but he just can't keep up with Backlund and Frolik the way someone like Bennett could.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:41 PM   #38
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Gretzky Messier. Lemieux Francis. Yzerman Fedorov. Modano Nieuwendyk. Sakic Forsberg. Lecavalier Richards. Staal Brindamour. Crosby Malkin. Toews Sharp. Bergeron Krejci. Kopitar Carter.

Monahan Bennett isn't ready to join that list...yet. But they sure as hell are our best chance, and the only way we're winning a cup is if they do.
You forgot Gilmour Nieuwendyk.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:48 AM   #39
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We have Gilmour (Bennett) and Nieuwendyk (Jankowski).
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:40 AM   #40
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Or maybe Put Bennett with Frolik and keep him as a center? I just think he needs to be split up with Tkachuk. Too young of a line that has been pretty clueless in the defensive zone to start the year.

You'd then have Backlund playing with Tkachuk so two young guys being sheltered a little with two way defensive forwards.
Or just demote Tkachuk, he's been decent but not great. Some more time in junior will be better for his development.
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