2016-17 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by kmart

You act as if Lebron's Miami teams were awful. They are far from awful, in fact if you can't see that they were "stacked" I don't know what to tell you.

In Miami you had:
Prime Chris Bosh (HOF player, perennial all-star)
Prime Dwayne Wade (HOF player, perennial MVP candidate)
Ray Allen (greatest spot up shooter of all time)

If that team wasn't stacked I don't know what is. That team struggled against the Pacers with players like Hibbert and Stephenson on the team. Hibbert and Stephenson are hardly even playing prominent roles in the NBA anymore. The fact that Miami struggled against the Pacers speaks more to Miami than it does the Pacers.

As for the current record of Cavs without Lebron, I believe that speaks more to the isolation that Lebron's teams frequently play than it does about Kyrie or Love. Of course you'd be lost when the player who dominates the ball doesn't play.

I remember LeBron pulling the old excuse that it takes time to gel multiple times in his first season in Miami. Well it sure didn't take Durant much time to gel with Golden State.

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I remember LeBron pulling the old excuse that it takes time to gel multiple times in his first season in Miami. Well it sure didn't take Durant much time to gel with Golden State.

i dunno.. guess it makes sense... to degree..durant was floated in late joiing a team with great chemistry.. lebron and teh heat had new players and had to find that... it was probably an exxcuse but i tink there is some truth to it.

[Love]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It was always a foregone conclusion that the Heat would likely walk their way to championships. As soon as the announcement was made all the talk of the time was if they would beat the Chicago Bulls wins in a season record just like the talk is now with Golden State.

The fact that the Heat didn't win more championships or even come close to breaking the Bulls record in a very weak Eastern Conference adds a lot of credibility to the train of thought that LeBron is not on the same echelon as Jordan or Kobe. You surround any of those two with players the Caliber of Wade, Bosh, Allen, and it's forgone conclusion who would have the championship each and every year.

Great player in a living legend, but he's in the echelon of Magic, Thomas, Bird, type of legend, not Jordan or Kobe in my opinion (and I dislike Kobe much more than I dislike LeBron).

He played there what, 4 seasons and went 2-2 in Miami? Of Lebron's 5 finals losses, 2011 is the only one I really hold against him. He was flat out bad. Reminiscent of Curry in 2016. They repeat in 2012 and 2013, and then another loss in 2014. 2014 was another point where he dragged a very sorry team to the promised land. At this point, players like Wade, Allen, Bosh, Chalmers, Birdman, etc were all leaving whatever peaks of their careers they had.

The Heat defense, which was predicated around blitzing pick and rolls and insane fastbreaks with crazy athleticism was done for. There was no more athleticism left to be exerted. The old legs of Allen, Wade, and Bosh exposed themselves, and role players like Chalmers and Birdman were just not contributing.

Just watching these finals was hard. Every game except the first two, were blowouts. The Spurs moved the ball too quick, and were too deep for the Heat to do anything.

It's very clear Lebron did the best he could and was by far the only player even remotely capable of being effective.

Just look at his stats from said finals:

28.PPG, 7.RPG, 4.APG, in 37.MPG on 57% FG, 51% 3PT, and 79% FT

Oh, and he did this against arguably the best perimeter defender we've ever seen.

This loss clearly doesn't fall on Lebron's shoulders.

Also, I find it odd that you continue to name MJ and Kobe synonymously. One of those is a top 2 player of all time, the other is fighting to crack the top 10.

[Love]

Originally Posted by kmart

In Miami you had:
Prime Chris Bosh (HOF player, perennial all-star)
Prime Dwayne Wade (HOF player, perennial MVP candidate)

What an unnecessary hyperbole. Wade's prime ended in 2009, Bosh's in 2010.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Love

What an unnecessary hyperbole. Wade's prime ended in 2009, Bosh's in 2010.

So Wade, 29, was averaging 27, 7, and 5 a year after his prime and Chris Bosh was 26 when his prime ended... Steph Curry was 28 this year...

Quite the hyperbole there...

[Love]

Originally Posted by kmart

So Wade, 29, was averaging 27, 7, and 5 a year after his prime and Chris Bosh was 26 when his prime ended... Steph Curry was 28 this year...

Quite the hyperbole there...

I mean I guess you can argue semantics over words. I guess you could replace "prime" with peak. Bosh's points as well as his rebounding number and assists dropped pretty dramatically after 2010.

But it's not unusual for basketball players to peak in their mid 20's, check Dwight Howard or Deron Williams for example.

I think it's really disingenuous to try and claim Lebron played with a prime Wade. There was a stretch between 2006-2009 where Dwayne Wade was battling Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard for the title of the best player in the game. If you watched him, he clearly wasn't that same player anymore in 2012.

[octothorp]

But Bosh's stats changed largely because his minutes dropped from high 30s to low 30s. His number of attempts per game dropped by about two shots, while his eFG went up, with the best shooting years of his career coming in Miami. Rebounding dropped in part because of reduced minutes, and in part because he went from playing along-side Andrea Bargnani, to playing for one of the best rebounding teams in the league with both Wade and James.

[fokkerfan]

It's Dwyane Wade Not Dwayne Wade, see here:

http://dwyanewade.com/

[Drake]

@WojverticalNBA:

Sources: Philadelphia is waiting on medical information on Markelle Fultz, but deep into talks on acquiring Boston's No. 1 overall pick.

Boston would acquire Sixers No. 3 overall pick in 2017 and package to include future first from Sixers, sources say. https://t.co/AK5LyYXnYX

Deal talks are far enough along that Fultz could be on his way to Philadelphia for a meeting Saturday, sources say. https://t.co/kR8vwZu8i2

[Senator Clay Davis]

Might as well change the team name to the Boston Asset Management Team. All this asset collecting and they probably still won't get an actual superstar out of it.

[Love]

Jonathan Wasserman‏Verified account
@NBADraftWass

Jonathan Wasserman Retweeted Adam Zagoria
Hearing this could wind up being a 3-team trade between Philadelphia-Boston-Chicago including Butler, Okafor and lots of picks

[Love]

Colangelo bent Danny Ainge over

[Senator Clay Davis]

I would say its time to start printing up the LeBron Sixers jerseys. They have to be the heavy favorites to get him if he stays in the East after next year.

[Drake]

WojVerticalNBA:

Sources: All-Star Paul George tells Pacers he plans to leave franchise in 2018 free agency, prefers Lakers. https://t.co/anP4bvbwir

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I would say its time to start printing up the LeBron Sixers jerseys. They have to be the heavy favorites to get him if he stays in the East after next year.

Then Lebron will invite his buddy Carmelo Anthony and another star player. NBA is becoming to be a joke with teams buying championship. We will never see a team like Toronto Raptors and small market team to even come close to winning championship if it keeps up.

[Love]

Originally Posted by OzSome

We will never see a team like Toronto Raptors and small market team to even come close to winning championship if it keeps up.

The Warriors and Cavaliers were small market teams themselves though

The Warriors eclipsed it with phenomenal drafting and the Cavaliers by drafting the greatest player to ever step on the hardwood.

[TheAlpineOracle]

That pretty much kills any Lowry to the 76ers moves doesn't it?

[Love]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That pretty much kills any Lowry to the 76ers moves doesn't it?

Yep. Word is, in terms of vets, the Sixers are eyeing JJ Redick to play the 2. They need a shooter.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Cavs fire their token GM, LeBron remains the President of Basketball Ops/GM.

[Drake]

Hilarious. Speculation out there the Griffin was in serious talks with the Bulls all day about a trade for Butler. Who knows what happens now.