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Old 10-15-2018, 10:19 PM   #521
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No, that is not correct, under the city's proposal, the Flames would own the arena and pay property taxes on it. The Flames want the city to own the arena, so as to avoid having to pay the property taxes.
If the City owns it, fine, pay a reasonable rent to cover operating costs in and associated with the facility. The streets don't clean themselves, the cops aren't self-funded, Calgary Transit isn't free to operate. You get the idea. I think the City said it could accept either scenario. The Flames characterized this as a loan repayment of capital contributions, which was rather spurious.

That said, there's a space for both sides to make some concessions to make a deal work, I think.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:29 PM   #522
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If the City owns it, fine, pay a reasonable rent to cover operating costs in and associated with the facility. The streets don't clean themselves, the cops aren't self-funded, Calgary Transit isn't free to operate. You get the idea. I think the City said it could accept either scenario. The Flames characterized this as a loan repayment of capital contributions, which was rather spurious.

That said, there's a space for both sides to make some concessions to make a deal work, I think.
I thought it was the city that characterized its contribution as a loan to be paid back through property taxes, in order to make the city's part more palatable to voters.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:33 PM   #523
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I thought it was the city that characterized its contribution as a loan to be paid back through property taxes, in order to make the city's part more palatable to voters.


That’s how the Flames spin it to suggest they’re paying for everything. But that’s not how finances work.

The city has sunk costs providing the land, demolishing the Saddledome and kicking in money for the building. The rent/property taxes goes into general revenue. They’re just asking for a 30 year lease if the city owns the building.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:40 PM   #524
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I thought it was the city that characterized its contribution as a loan to be paid back through property taxes, in order to make the city's part more palatable to voters.
I recall the characterization is the City would like to see some "up-side" from its contribution. Of course for the City, tax revenue pays for operating costs primarily. It's not really a mechanism for capital repayment, except explicitly in a CRL, but that tax revenue needs to be earmarked for that purpose. That the City was willing to entertain either rent or taxes says to me it wasn't about CRL repayment.

In any event, that aspect is actually negotiable since in the Municipal Government Act, professional sports facilities are one of the only commercial uses where market value assessment need not apply.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:17 PM   #525
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The City's main stance, based on my read, is they don't want to sink money into another arena that's going to be surrounded by parking lots for 30 years.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:29 PM   #526
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The City's main stance, based on my read, is they don't want to sink money into another arena that's going to be surrounded by parking lots for 30 years.
Fine I guess we will all just bike to it
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:36 PM   #527
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The City's main stance, based on my read, is they don't want to sink money into another arena that's going to be surrounded by parking lots for 30 years.
That makes sense to me. Ppl can park 4 train stops away at a park in ride or use a dt parkade. Or heck go to a casino before the game. No need to have it surrounded by parking. Better to have residential and retail insead OG parking lots.

Speaking of casinos I wonder how the 2 casinos next to the dome will do if the Flames move across town.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:47 PM   #528
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That makes sense to me. Ppl can park 4 train stops away at a park in ride or use a dt parkade. Or heck go to a casino before the game. No need to have it surrounded by parking. Better to have residential and retail insead OG parking lots.

Speaking of casinos I wonder how the 2 casinos next to the dome will do if the Flames move across town.
The newly announced city parkade is what... 2 blocks away?
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:55 PM   #529
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The newly announced city parkade is what... 2 blocks away?
4 (3 blocks north and 1 west). About 500m.
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:00 AM   #530
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Why can't they just put parking... under the stadium? Or build a big, tiered lot beside it? And then build a big trendy community around it with the saved space, like Lansdowne Park in the Glebe in Ottawa?
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:28 AM   #531
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Why can't they just put parking... under the stadium?
gravity.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:14 AM   #532
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Why can't they just put parking... under the stadium? Or build a big, tiered lot beside it? And then build a big trendy community around it with the saved space, like Lansdowne Park in the Glebe in Ottawa?
I imagine ice plants, and other utility works for buildings like that are pretty extensive underground.

The City is discouraging parking anyway - it creates congestion.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:21 AM   #533
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I imagine ice plants, and other utility works for buildings like that are pretty extensive underground.

The City is discouraging parking anyway - it creates congestion.
I think having a shuttle bus going down (9th ave picking people up at city center lot/Telus convention center, Centennial, and city hall. After the game just have drop offs at city hall, 1st SW and 4st SW. Should be a pretty quick loop. This would help use up a lot of the viable parking that is down town after hours.

I wonder what the cost is ctrain vs bus.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:33 AM   #534
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I think having a shuttle bus going down (9th ave picking people up at city center lot/Telus convention center, Centennial, and city hall. After the game just have drop offs at city hall, 1st SW and 4st SW. Should be a pretty quick loop. This would help use up a lot of the viable parking that is down town after hours.

I wonder what the cost is ctrain vs bus.
The train is likely cheaper and moves more people. If they just extended the free zone to Stampede during game times and maybe run a 7 minute schedule (their median one) it probably works pretty well. Not to mention that the newish underpass from 9th ave and 4th SE makes for a pretty quick walk from City Hall.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:22 PM   #535
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Why can't they just put parking... under the stadium? Or build a big, tiered lot beside it? And then build a big trendy community around it with the saved space, like Lansdowne Park in the Glebe in Ottawa?
That's where the ice surface is
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:13 PM   #536
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The City's main stance, based on my read, is they don't want to sink money into another arena that's going to be surrounded by parking lots for 30 years.
If I recall correctly, Saddledome was not suppose to be surrounding by parking lots.

I would think that's a Flames & City concern.
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:44 PM   #537
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Some people in this thread don't need any details at all.
Which is why most of my posts in this thread are regarding wanting all of the details.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:16 PM   #538
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Surprised the city didn’t try and leverage some of the Olympic funds from the federal government matching program to go into the new arena, as currently some of that money is left off the table. I wonder if this is something that they might be negotiating behind the scenes right now with CSEC and the feds.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:52 PM   #539
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Surprised the city didn’t try and leverage some of the Olympic funds from the federal government matching program to go into the new arena, as currently some of that money is left off the table. I wonder if this is something that they might be negotiating behind the scenes right now with CSEC and the feds.
Given the matching component, I too think a huge missed opportunity. Something I pushed for when the Fed announcement first came out. They did add the Vic park district funds, but could have pushed for arena too.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:49 PM   #540
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It actually makes zero sense not to have the arena thing tied to the Olympics at this point. Just a few short days before the plebiscite. I keep thinking this will be the surprise change to the Olympics bid that will sway a yes decision.
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