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Old 10-04-2023, 08:05 PM   #801
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Getting Dante Bichette back to work with the hitters seems like a no Brainer. Can't remember if there wss something more than him wanting to work with his son during the lockout that he left the team.
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Old 10-04-2023, 08:05 PM   #802
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Wow... one run in two games, huh? Glad I didn't invest time in this garbage.
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Old 10-04-2023, 08:28 PM   #803
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Wow... one run in two games, huh? Glad I didn't invest time in this garbage.
Today's game summed up the entire season, condensed into 2:51
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Old 10-04-2023, 08:52 PM   #804
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I can agree that the line up was lack lustre from the get go. Management evaluations were way off on few players. But they talked extensively about changing how they play, more small ball rather than playing for the big inning and that lasted about 10 games. One could tell halfway through the season that the hitting wasn't coming around but they never changed their approach. So many lead off doubles ended with the runner on 3rd. Even today. You scored one run yesterday move that lead off hitter around. But no, let's swing away at bad pitches. That's on the manager.

His handling off the pitching staff was worse.I think he cost the team 5-8 wins with bad pitching decisions and that is not counting today. I have never liked him or Montoyo. I hate that approach they have.
I agree. The manager sets the philosophy and the training for how to play in key situations. Schneider was focused on a data based approach and never had a strategy implemented amongst these players. Base running, small ball, allowing pitchers to work out of jams...that's a good manager. Pulling both Gausman and Berrios early tells me he has zero feel for the game instinctually. I'm fully on the fire Schneider train after this playoff performance. Just relying on guys to "figure it out" isn't a strategy offensively.

The one thing I'll say about this team is they defended incredibly well. I love that in a team. Runs saved is a big deal when it comes to winning games, just ask Carlos Correa about that after this one. Any extra out or any extra base denied is always a huge boost to the pitching staff. It also allows you to score just a few runs with key small ball...but alas, they never figured out what that looks like. Oh what could have been with a proper manager on the bench with this roster. It had such potential.
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Old 10-04-2023, 09:02 PM   #805
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I will say the Schneider move being touted by plenty as THE move that lost them the game is bogus. It was a bad move at the time and like many said, analytically driven from above without an understanding of an outlier performance. BUT this wasn't the move that lost them the game. They just can't hit with RISP. Today they seemed to have been able to get on base but one thing or another couldn't score. It's been the story of their season.
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Old 10-04-2023, 09:50 PM   #806
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I will say the Schneider move being touted by plenty as THE move that lost them the game is bogus. It was a bad move at the time and like many said, analytically driven from above without an understanding of an outlier performance. BUT this wasn't the move that lost them the game. They just can't hit with RISP. Today they seemed to have been able to get on base but one thing or another couldn't score. It's been the story of their season.
I mean, it did directly lead to the runs that won the game for the other team.

But they left a lot of runners on base, and you can't win scoring 0 runs. So definitely not the only issue.
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Old 10-04-2023, 11:56 PM   #807
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This organization is just flat out dumb. They pull Berrios today because the NUMBERS said so, but start Gausman yesterday but the NUMBERS said glaringly not to. Such a pathetic state this organization is in. Bad leadership top down. You pull ur guy after 47 fn pitches, 47 mother fn pitches. What a clown show.

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Old 10-05-2023, 12:16 AM   #808
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For me itís the GM chair for the reasons you outlined. No meaningful upgrades to the offense despite it being a glaring hole
The bizarre part is here on CP at the trade deadline. When it was announced that they weren't doing anything, so many here were fine with it and happy to go ahead with the roster at hand.

It was baffling to read.
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Old 10-05-2023, 01:15 AM   #809
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Getting Dante Bichette back to work with the hitters seems like a no Brainer. Can't remember if there wss something more than him wanting to work with his son during the lockout that he left the team.

That whole beat the #### out of his kids both physically and mentally thing is a bit of a barrier.


Then again, they've kept a drunk driver on staff so what's another questionable character.
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Old 10-05-2023, 02:04 AM   #810
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I agree Schneider made some bonehead decisions.... but he also didnt tell Guerrero to get picked off, Bichette to get thrown out trying to get home, the team going 3-14 with risp, Belt going 0-8, Varsho 0-5, Guerrero going 1-7, Chapman 1-7.

The whole team lost it. Time for a shakeup.

I shouldnt say the whole team. The Pitching was overall good.

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Old 10-05-2023, 05:07 AM   #811
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Final score

0 at 2
The Twins win the series 2-0
https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/games/2587724/
https://www.espn.com/mlb/recap/_/gameId/401581114
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/m...ecap-1.6986874
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Old 10-05-2023, 05:25 AM   #812
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That whole beat the #### out of his kids both physically and mentally thing is a bit of a barrier.


Then again, they've kept a drunk driver on staff so what's another questionable character.
What was the issue with Bichette? Never heard whatever it was.
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Old 10-05-2023, 08:58 AM   #813
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Old 10-05-2023, 09:25 AM   #814
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Hit the nail on the head regarding Atkins, analytics team, and Schneider. Disagree on half of the Vladdy/Bo comments. Vladdyís is warranted, he needs to take things more seriously. Bo I felt like had a very good season and probably thought he could get home. I know he didnít, but Correa is one of the best SSís in the league.

Changes have to be made.
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Old 10-05-2023, 09:50 AM   #815
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Vladdy calming Bo down at the plate only to be picked off is peak Jays 2023
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Old 10-05-2023, 10:22 AM   #816
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I agree Schneider made some bonehead decisions.... but he also didnt tell Guerrero to get picked off, Bichette to get thrown out trying to get home, the team going 3-14 with risp, Belt going 0-8, Varsho 0-5, Guerrero going 1-7, Chapman 1-7.

The whole team lost it. Time for a shakeup.

I shouldnt say the whole team. The Pitching was overall good.
He did and he didn't. That's overall fundamentals day by day that by game 164 players should know. Are these guys uncoachable? That's a different question.

Team got 9 hits yesterday, that's not bad.
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Old 10-05-2023, 10:26 AM   #817
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What is hilarious is they used "Analytics" in Game 2 but in Game 1 ignored it when it was clear they weren't chasing Gausman they needed to yank him. Atkins need to go as and front office needs to bring in a leader for the heart of the line-up.

Based on Analytics I would have started Berrios in Game 1. Went to Bassit in Game 2 and then used Gausman/Kikuchi in Game 3 if needed. If not you have Gausman ready for the next series.
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Old 10-05-2023, 10:44 AM   #818
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The Bichette mistake I have a bit more time for...he was playing hard and was trying to make a play. Correa just made a better play.

The Vlad one is the issue because while it was still a great play by Correa and Grey...it's being completely asleep and not recognizing the situation with a man on 3rd in front of you and 2 outs. You're running on contact either way, no need to have such a big lead, and then completely asleep as Correa has to move in 10-15 feet to even cover the bag and he beats you there easily.
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Old 10-05-2023, 10:48 AM   #819
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The Bichette criticism seems a little bit over the top. I was cheering so hard for him as he rounded third but I knew that it was a huge risk and probably wasn't worth taking. At least, he was doing what he thought it took to try to win.

The Guerrero criticism is totally valid. I don't think he came into the season very fit. Did he look fat? Not really but he also wasn't as fit as he was a couple of years ago. He's an athlete and every tiny edge matters in performance. He was markedly slower than he was a couple of years ago and less flexible with poor footwork at first base. To perform at your best, you need to be at your best. I think Vladdy needs to look at himself and compare who he was this year versus who he was in 2021. He did what he needed to do to get the best of himself in 2021 and he didn't do that this year.

Manoah, Kirk, and Guerrero are all big guys and I don't mean to pick on them but they simply cannot be complacent in their training. MLB is an elite game (look at Mike Trout, Shohei Ohtani, etc) and you need to be at your peak performance to be competitive over the long haul.

Manoah reportedly came in at 320lbs this year. That should have been a massive red flag. Kirk has time to make some progress. Guerrero has regressed.

The Jays need to require their players to come into camp at peak fitness or they should risk being benched...even Vlad. They should be instituting hockey style fitness testing in spring training. Does the game of baseball require the same level of cardio fitness as hockey? No but it does require a level of fitness that allows an athlete to perform at their peak over a 162 game season. A base level of fitness should simply be part of the game so that we never have to think about it.

This year was evidence that even Vlad Guerrero is completely replaceable. He had a lower WRC+ than Brandon Belt and a WAR lower than 18 players on his own team. He had the same WAR as Cavan ####ing Biggio (god love him). Guerrero has coasted on the success of 2021. He has coasted on his talent alone. Well, talent isn't always enough. You need a lot more than just talent and daddy's name to be a long term success in professional sports.
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Old 10-05-2023, 10:51 AM   #820
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Build the nicest spring training facility in the league. Hire a huge strength and conditioning staff.

Have 3 fat, out of shape players massively regress this season. Pesos well spent.
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