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Old 10-05-2023, 11:04 AM   #821
SuperMatt18
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Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc View Post
The Guerrero criticism is totally valid. I don't think he came into the season very fit. Did he look fat? Not really but he also wasn't as fit as he was a couple of years ago. He's an athlete and every tiny edge matters in performance. He was markedly slower than he was a couple of years ago and less flexible with poor footwork at first base. To perform at your best, you need to be at your best. I think Vladdy needs to look at himself and compare who he was this year versus who he was in 2021. He did what he needed to do to get the best of himself in 2021 and he didn't do that this year.
The problem here too is that it leaves little margin for error since he's not in great shape.

It's easy to forget now but Guerrero started the season on fire, but once he got hurt it seems like whatever happened with that injury really was tough, and he never really found his swing or timing again after that.

Part of being in better shape is it allows you to overcome injuries and things like that with less of an impact. For him he couldn't overcome it.
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Old 10-05-2023, 11:05 AM   #822
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That was spicy.
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Old 10-05-2023, 01:58 PM   #823
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Agree with most of what Seixeiro said, but more importantly, good on him for going full tilt and laying it all out there!

As others have said, don't entirely agree on Bichette - I do to an extent, and remember, it wasn't jus the base running error, but he also had a pretty egregious throwing error, despite having only 8 of them, all season. I think too, he had a couple pretty ugly at bats. But he tries, he cares, and he is a great young player.

Where I think Seixeiro erred, is you shouldn't lump them together like that. They aren't a package deal, they are individuals. I think Bichette would be fine, in the right situation. Keep them separate, and address each of their (different) issues separately and directly.

But the Guerrero situation is a problem. And here I agree with GirlySoorts when she said that Schneider does deserve at least some blame - he sets the tone, and the culture, and Vladdy needs a culture change. He needs to take the game more seriously. And he needs to have his ass kicked.

Going to be a hell of an offseason!
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Old 10-05-2023, 04:37 PM   #824
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Build the nicest spring training facility in the league. Hire a huge strength and conditioning staff.

Have 3 fat, out of shape players massively regress this season. Pesos well spent.
Kirk is morbidly obese which is the scariest thing, but they choose to trade Moreno. Terrible asset management
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Old 10-05-2023, 05:55 PM   #825
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Kirk is morbidly obese which is the scariest thing, but they choose to trade Moreno. Terrible asset management
I'm guessing they didn't get much interest in Kirk or Jansen and thought they were getting value for Moreno. 29 other teams likely were not willing to bet on Kirk having much longevity and the Jay's likely did over value Jansen. Although Jansen to me was not a problem this season. But long term they lost what might have been a solid foundational piece and that's a big error.
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Old 10-05-2023, 07:35 PM   #826
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I understand that the word likely came from above and was known early that Berrios may leave early.

Did the same analytics that told the team not to trust him to go two times through an average batting Twins lineup, sure with 4 straight lefties in it, also tell the Jays to sign him to a $15M/year deal two years ago?

The Jays never did anything close to that extreme with him or any other pitcher all season.

And, he pitched around Lewis, fine, and got the walk and the pulled (Lewis who didn’t do much else in game )..but you don’t trust Berrios for then to next be facing no name average hitters in Kepler and Kirlioff?

Other analytics seemed to be thrown out the window when it came to hitters. Next playoffs, because Espinal went 2 for 2 in these two games, will we see the Jays best slugger pulled so Santiago can bat with bases loaded so they can play the playoff averages?
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Old 10-05-2023, 09:01 PM   #827
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I said last year they should have played out this season with three catchers on the roster as there was uncertainty with each. Kirk looked promising based on his great eye, but downside was conditioning and how long he'd last. Jansen has always appeared to be a subtle leader on the team with streaky power, but could never stay healthy. Moreno seemed to have questionable power but had everything else and was rising fast. The odds were Jansen would falter and Moreno would be there. I still can't believe people jumped on the bandwagon to what the team was selling with Varsho's potential. They gave up a ton of potential themselves for an unproven bat and that was a terrible risk/reward. I'm glad Atkins isn't getting a free pass on Schneider's back here. People are seeing the facade and are calling for him. Right or wrong I can't see how Shapiro stands by Atkins given the fitting vitriol. There are things he did well, but we'll discuss those once he's fired. I wonder what other executives are out there?
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Old 10-06-2023, 02:32 AM   #828
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If you want to get mad all over again about the decision to pull Berrios, Jomboy has done a great breakdown of just how well he was pitching.

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Old 10-06-2023, 03:07 AM   #829
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Schneider, Atkins, Mattingly, whoever............

I don't care who decided what. Anyone involved in the decision that said 'no matter what, we're yanking Berrios in the 4th' needs to go away and never come back to Toronto.

You ain't winning anything with morons like that in charge.
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Old 10-06-2023, 10:48 AM   #830
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Schneider, Atkins, Mattingly, whoever............

I don't care who decided what. Anyone involved in the decision that said 'no matter what, we're yanking Berrios in the 4th' needs to go away and never come back to Toronto.

You ain't winning anything with morons like that in charge.
Nothing new. Shoemaker was yanked in the same way in Game 1 of 2020.

Rogers is ok with all this since the park is full. We can only vote with our wallet. If changes aren't made, don't watch. Ratings will go down, less people at the park etc...
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Old 10-08-2023, 09:23 PM   #831
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