Calgary Flames General Manager Ranking - #2

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I also think a starting goaltender is pretty hard to go out and get. Most of them are drafted and take a while to become the starter. The few that are available just so happen to be because that team drafted two, but we're talking a 4-6 year stretch between when most of those guys get drafted and when they take over the starting role. If Treliving had drafted a grade A goaltending prospect right near the start of his tenure, we might just be seeing him now.

Could we have drafted Demko instead of McDonald in 2014? Sure, but we still wouldn't have a starting goaltender.

Blackwood wasn't an option in 2015, Hart wasn't one in 2016.

So who could we have acquired?
- Bishop we tried, it didn't work out.
- Fleury is a question mark, did we try? I hope so, but he wasn't much better than Rittich this year, if at all.
- Lehner, Varlamov, and Raanta are probably the only three that are better than Rittich where it's not clear how "in" we were. It's not like they were just ours to take, it's a number one goaltender, so you're taking some risk while competing with multiple other GMs.

I don't fault Treliving for not getting a 1G just like I don't fault him for not getting a 1C. Those things aren't just about being a good GM, they take a ton of luck.

I do wish he'd done better on the goaltending front, but I also think getting Rittich for nothing was a huge positive.

Lehner, man. Lehner.

Available twice for nothing. No interest from BT, in fact he referred to the ufa crop as not representing an upgrade that year IIRC. His stats are great the last couple of years and he's always had great potential. He's big and athletic, but obviously there are questions about his mental makeup. He's fiery but I think most of the concerns stem from his well documented battles with mental illness. Not fair at all in my opinion. I would take Lehner because he's better and more consistent than Rittich. But he might even be less of a "headcase". Rittich gets so high and low, he's hard to trust. There's also the issue of his play worsening as the season wears on. I think Rittich would make an excellent backup who plays like 30 games.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Lehner, man. Lehner.

Available twice for nothing. No interest from BT, in fact he referred to the ufa crop as not representing an upgrade that year IIRC. His stats are great the last couple of years and he's always had great potential. He's big and athletic, but obviously there are questions about his mental makeup. He's fiery but I think most of the concerns stem from his well documented battles with mental illness. Not fair at all in my opinion. I would take Lehner because he's better and more consistent than Rittich. But he might even be less of a "headcase". Rittich gets so high and low, he's hard to trust. There's also the issue of his play worsening as the season wears on. I think Rittich would make an excellent backup who plays like 30 games.

Who would have a more impact and make us a better team? Hall, or Lehner/Markstrom?

I want Hall badly, but I think it might be time Treliving finally paid for a goaltender correctly. That is why I'm not in charge.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Lehner, man. Lehner.

Available twice for nothing. No interest from BT, in fact he referred to the ufa crop as not representing an upgrade that year IIRC...

Refresh my memory, please. Which year was that?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Refresh my memory, please. Which year was that?

The first year he was UFA when he went to New York I'm pretty sure.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

The first year he was UFA when he went to New York I'm pretty sure.

Right. There was definitely a higher risk in 2018 than there was last summer. Lehner was coming off of an underwhelming year, and with a tonne of baggage. In retrospect this would have been a great pick-up, but at the time no one knew whether they would be getting the 2016–17 Robyn Lehner, or the 2018–19 Lehner.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Lehner, man. Lehner.

Available twice for nothing. No interest from BT, in fact he referred to the ufa crop as not representing an upgrade that year IIRC. His stats are great the last couple of years and he's always had great potential. He's big and athletic, but obviously there are questions about his mental makeup. He's fiery but I think most of the concerns stem from his well documented battles with mental illness. Not fair at all in my opinion. I would take Lehner because he's better and more consistent than Rittich. But he might even be less of a "headcase". Rittich gets so high and low, he's hard to trust. There's also the issue of his play worsening as the season wears on. I think Rittich would make an excellent backup who plays like 30 games.

I personally am a huge fan of Lehner and would have gone after him every chance he was available. I think there were valid question marks where I see why a GM would stay away (and a LOT did) but I think he’d be a great addition.

I’m hoping he’s available this year and Treliving goes after him, but who knows.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Who would have a more impact and make us a better team? Hall, or Lehner/Markstrom?



I want Hall badly, but I think it might be time Treliving finally paid for a goaltender correctly. That is why I'm not in charge.

Why not both? Let's get crazy.

Trade Gaudreau, Monahan, Pelletier for Cirelli, Point and Johnson
Trade Backlund for a pick or two
Trade Ryan for a pick or two
Trade Rittich for a pick or two
Trade Jankowski and Bennett
Re-sign Brodie 5x 5.25m
Re-sign Mangiapane 4x 3.5m
Sign Lehner 5x 5m
Sign Dell 1x 1m
Sign Hall 6x 8m
Sign Cirelli 6x 5m
Sign Haula 1x 2.5m
Sign Stone 1x 700k
QO Kylington
Graduate Phillips
Graduate Ruzicka

Tkachuk Point Johnson 19m
Hall Cirelli Lindholm 18m
Dube Haula Mangiapane 7m
Lucic Ruzicka Phillips 7m

Giordano Brodie 12m
Hanifin Andersson 9.5m
Valimaki Stone 1.6m
Kylington QO

Lehner 5m
Dell 1m

That lineup kicks ass imo. A little small but it would be explosive. Pretty nhl20ish but fun to do nonetheless. There's 5 natural Cs and 2 more that can play C in Lindholm and Dube. I love the top 6 F / top 4 D / 1G. What an awesome core.

It would cost 80m approximately for the 21 players listed there. Leaves 1.5m for 1 or 2 roster spots. 700k for 'show me' vets on PTOs to start. Ideally you just get rid of Lucic to save Backlund and forego Haula, but ya, I think we are stuck with the big lug. My TB proposal is pretty crazy but I think it benefits both while saving TB cap. They are screwed long term and will have to give Johnson or Palat the Miller treatment here soon.

To actually answer the question, I think they are of equal importance at this point. Adding an asset like Hall would be huge. It would allow you to trade Gaudreau and get stronger. Maybe you finally fix that pesky 1C problem by adding a blue chipper while replacing Gaudreau with Hall. Goaltending is key though and I'm not confident in Rittich. So ya, both would be my preference with a whole lot of chopping and trading to become cap compliant after. Even if you package a couple picks to move someone later, it's still worth it because you have Hall + return for Gaudreau.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But that doesn't mean I think he's perfect. None of them have been.

That's very true. Even Fletcher made some moves you question.

- Joe Mullen for a 2nd round pick
- Draft record 88-91
- Brett Hull trade (I know the deal helped them win, but I've always felt they could have got Ramage and Wamsley for less)
- Quenneville for Volcan

But Fletcher made way way more moves that were incredible, like turning Dan Quinn into Doug Gilmour and Mark Hunter somehow (via Mike Bullard). He was so good at selling at just the right time and buying at just the right time. Just goes to show that nobody's perfect!

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That's very true. Even Fletcher made some moves you question.

- Joe Mullen for a 2nd round pick
- Draft record 88-91
- Brett Hull trade (I know the deal helped them win, but I've always felt they could have got Ramage and Wamsley for less)
- Quenneville for Volcan

But Fletcher made way way more moves that were incredible, like turning Dan Quinn into Doug Gilmour and Mark Hunter somehow (via Mike Bullard). He was so good at selling at just the right time and buying at just the right time. Just goes to show that nobody's perfect!

That's a deep pull!

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

That's a deep pull!

Haha thanks. It was such a horrible trade! Quenneville was a serviceable D-man both before and after the deal for many years. Volcan was never an NHLer. He barely played for the Flames that first season even.

Maybe if the Flames have Quenneville they don't have to trade Hull for Ramage. Plus, he was Lanny's buddy.

I remember going to the game where Lanny's jersey was retired and Quenneville was there (game was vs. Hartford) and he gave a speech, which was pretty cool.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That's very true. Even Fletcher made some moves you question.

- Joe Mullen for a 2nd round pick
- Draft record 88-91
- Brett Hull trade (I know the deal helped them win, but I've always felt they could have got Ramage and Wamsley for less)
- Quenneville for Volcan

But Fletcher made way way more moves that were incredible, like turning Dan Quinn into Doug Gilmour and Mark Hunter somehow (via Mike Bullard). He was so good at selling at just the right time and buying at just the right time. Just goes to show that nobody's perfect!

I think you’re right about the Hull- Ramage/Wamsley trade. I wouldn’t take it back but that was a steep price. Although Hull was not without his warts at the time, as his work ethic was questioned and he was totally one dimensional.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Agree to disagree

Hartley got a full year overachievement out of a team with a weak roster. Built a system to suit the team, had an identity. Won a playoff round. And, oh, Hartley also has a cup.

Peters had a half good year of high octane hockey, played worse down the stretch. Made the playoffs with a very good roster, got out coached in the playoffs, and the next year couldn’t get the team playing anywhere near their potential

Both guys wore thin on their teams pretty quickly.

Much better? I’d be interested in why / how

Just my opinion ...

But to me I have to see a tactical change and then a lack of counter or at least the assumption of not having an answer to think someone was out coached.

The Flames backed in on their goaltender and had forwards were blowing the zone early and not backchecking hard enough to put pressure on Avalanche players coming with speed.

So yeah if Peters was fine with both then you are 100% right and he was out coached.

I just can't see that though.

NHL coaches almost to a man talk gap control and pressure points on the ice. When the Avalanche were taking advantage it only makes sense to me that his message would have been to stop backing in as defensemen and trust the forwards are coming. To the forwards you'd be insisting on that back pressure or else.

I think the team wigged out and couldn't trust themselves to do the right thing out of fear of Avalanche speed and looking silly.

As I said though ... just my opinion from a distance.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Haha thanks. It was such a horrible trade! Quenneville was a serviceable D-man both before and after the deal for many years. Volcan was never an NHLer. He barely played for the Flames that first season even.

Maybe if the Flames have Quenneville they don't have to trade Hull for Ramage. Plus, he was Lanny's buddy.

I remember going to the game where Lanny's jersey was retired and Quenneville was there (game was vs. Hartford) and he gave a speech, which was pretty cool.

That trade always confused me. Acquire Quenneville only to trade him away a couple weeks later, and like you say, the return was nothing special.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That's very true. Even Fletcher made some moves you question.

- Joe Mullen for a 2nd round pick
- Draft record 88-91
- Brett Hull trade (I know the deal helped them win, but I've always felt they could have got Ramage and Wamsley for less)
- Quenneville for Volcan

But Fletcher made way way more moves that were incredible, like turning Dan Quinn into Doug Gilmour and Mark Hunter somehow (via Mike Bullard). He was so good at selling at just the right time and buying at just the right time. Just goes to show that nobody's perfect!

I distinctly remember the chatter of firing Fletcher on phone in radio shows in the mid 80s.