Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Vinny01]

Anaheim would be a decent trade partner if they were not in our division but since they are it makes no sense. Something around Ritchie and a pick could be a reasonable deal but again no way I would make that deal with a division rival.

The Habs also do not make any sense unless he was part of a Price blockbuster

[flamesfever]

I think Bennett will follow somewhat the same path as Backlund. He'll just keep getting more and more valuable to the team with time. Hopefully his contribution becomes evident to our coach, and he gets put in situations that allow him to succeed.

We have given up on too many players in the past, that went on to succeed with other teams.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by chedder

"Friedman believes the Flames look at the Oilers trading Taylor Hall and wonder if the same could happen if they traded Bennett."

Friedman has to be out to lunch on this comment. Hall has been a 50 point plus player since day one and is now a point per game plus player.

I think anyone would be ecstatic if Bennett ever gets to 50 points.

It is not the best comparison but the fear is real that Bennett is rejuvenated by a change of scenery and becomes much more of a player elsewhere which was the case with Hall

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You've completely missed the point, which was that the player got better after being traded. And I think it's a pretty safe bet that the same thing would happen with Bennett.

Wouldn't that be the fear of ever trading a player? I think I got the point. Just stating that comparing Bennett to Hall is apples to oranges other than draft position (which isn't even that relevant with Hall going first overall) .

Hall has been a good to very good player since day one, Bennett hasn't.

And I like Bennett. Just don't think he'll ever be an 80 point player.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by David Struch

The bolded is news to me.



https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/calgary-flames

Trying to trade him before he can't be compared to Taylor Hall?

How did that go for those oilers!? I would rather wait and see how he responds to better coach and line-mates. Seems Sam Bennett is off to a good start, and now that he is filling out his body we may see some maturity on the ice and his place on the team.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by chedder

Wouldn't that be the fear of ever trading a player? I think I got the point. Just stating that comparing Bennett to Hall is apples to oranges other than draft position (which isn't even that relevant with Hall going first overall) .

Hall has been a good to very good player since day one, Bennett hasn't.

And I like Bennett. Just don't think he'll ever be an 80 point player.

I don't think the Flames had any intention of using Bennett the same way Taylor Hall was used, we already have 2-3 complementary players on the top line. I think they have been grooming him to be a 2 way player I think it is everyone else's expectations of Sam as a 4th round draft pick. Sam is fine for his salary range, he adds something to the team. I think it is fan expectations that are out of wack. Are the Flames expecting Sam to put up 80 points or are they grooming him to fit a role on the team!?

[David Struch]

I suppose Nick Ritchie is the obvious offer from the Ducks, nearly identicle numbers to Sam, what is the hold-up with that contract, are they asking significantly more than Bennett's 1.95 million?

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by chedder

Wouldn't that be the fear of ever trading a player? I think I got the point. Just stating that comparing Bennett to Hall is apples to oranges other than draft position (which isn't even that relevant with Hall going first overall) .

Hall has been a good to very good player since day one, Bennett hasn't.

And I like Bennett. Just don't think he'll ever be an 80 point player.

I think therein lies part of the problem...too much expectation put on a young player. I believe he's just one of those players that is going to take longer to develop. I think sometimes being a very low draft choice can be a burden.

Maybe he won't ever be an 80 point player, but that doesn't disqualify him from ever being a very important part of the team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by chedder

Wouldn't that be the fear of ever trading a player? I think I got the point. Just stating that comparing Bennett to Hall is apples to oranges other than draft position (which isn't even that relevant with Hall going first overall) .

Hall has been a good to very good player since day one, Bennett hasn't.

And I like Bennett. Just don't think he'll ever be an 80 point player.

And that's the problem in social media these days. Friedman pulls Hall out of his butt on Calgary radio, and then you see scores of replies suggesting the Flames are delusional if they think Bennett is Hall.

Sigh ...

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think therein lies part of the problem...too much expectation put on a young player. I believe he's just one of those players that is going to take longer to develop. I think sometimes being a very low draft choice can be a burden.

Maybe he won't ever be an 80 point player, but that doesn't disqualify him from ever being a very important part of the team.

Yeah he doesn't have to be an 80 point player to be a guy they should hang on to.

I'm hoping for 15 goals and 40 points this year. He does that and he's money at 1.9M and maybe on the way of becoming a key young middle six player in Calgary.

Nothing wrong with that.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by chedder

Wouldn't that be the fear of ever trading a player? I think I got the point. Just stating that comparing Bennett to Hall is apples to oranges other than draft position (which isn't even that relevant with Hall going first overall) .

Hall has been a good to very good player since day one, Bennett hasn't.

And I like Bennett. Just don't think he'll ever be an 80 point player.

Forget Hall. Do you not see William Karlsson as a parallel to Bennett? Buried in a 3rd line role with mediocre linemates, gets an expanded role and suddenly explodes.

Talent in this league has always played with talent. Jonathan Toews wasn't playing with scrubs when he was voted a top 100 player of all time, he was consistently on the ice with the likes of Hossa, Kane, Sharp, and Saad. As much as people wax poetic about earned ice time, most of the time players just fall into it by convenience and team need. Bennett is a LHS C / LW and he's been pushed out of prime production opportunities by Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, and Tkachuk. There are teams that do have that spot available, and Bennett in particular has the type of upside where even if he doesn't become Hall, he could be a more complete two-way center than Monahan and a more dynamic offensive player than Backlund.

Personally I don't see Monahan-Backlund as a cup winning 1-2 punch at center so giving up on Bennett right now seems irresponsible at best. Brayden Point wouldn't be who he is without injuries to the likes of Stamkos and Johnson, either. Sometimes things have to fall into place naturally and that was not about to happen under GG, whose sense of adventure was limited to watching a Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Under Hartley, and now again under Peters, we are seeing the kind of experimentation needed for players to have breakout seasons.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah he doesn't have to be an 80 point player to be a guy they should hang on to.

I'm hoping for 15 goals and 40 points this year. He does that and he's money at 1.9M and maybe on the way of becoming a key young middle six player in Calgary.

Nothing wrong with that.

Agree there’s nothing wrong with that except for the part where when you draft a player 4th overall you’re hoping to get a player that is in the 70-80 point/ yr range not 40. But other than that it’s fine.

[Brick]

It takes different types of players to make up a team. Sam brings elements to the game that other players are lacking. Sam Bennett is a valuable part of this team and he will only get better.

[DazzlinDino]

They had no intention of putting Sam on the top line to put up 80 points because the top 6 was pretty much covered. Johnny and Monahan have admitted they are close friends and strongly complement one another. It only made sense for the Flames to groom Bennett because Backlund's line was also pretty much set, so Bennett pretty much go saddled with poor depth players. It is not out of the question that the Flames wanted Bennett to develop his 2 way game and not worry about scoring goals which is why they never accommodated him with better line mates. BT is just starting to address the teams depth issues and we are likely to see Bennett being used in more situations that will increase his offensive output. Organizations being patient, some fans not so much.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Agree there’s nothing wrong with that except for the part where when you draft a player 4th overall you’re hoping to get a player that is in the 70-80 point/ yr range not 40. But other than that it’s fine.

Of the 10 players that were selected 4th in the draft, in the 10 years immediately prior to Bennett, only two had 70 or more points in a season i.e. Nicklas Backstrom and Ryan Johansen. In taking the best year of each of the 10 players, the average was 48.8 points. In Bennett's best year he scored 37 points, and his average over 3 years is 29.3. If he keeps improving, he has lots of time to catch up, or even surpass, the average player picked 4th in the draft.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Agree there’s nothing wrong with that except for the part where when you draft a player 4th overall you’re hoping to get a player that is in the 70-80 point/ yr range not 40. But other than that it’s fine.

Maybe it's because I'm a trader, I just don't worry about how I got into a position, just the way I manage it from there.

7th round pick, 1st round pick, free agent signing or trade. He's an asset.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Of the 10 players that were selected 4th in the draft, in the 10 years immediately prior to Bennett, only two had 70 or more points in a season i.e. Nicklas Backstrom and Ryan Johansen. In taking the best year of each of the 10 players, the average was 48.8 points. In Bennett's best year he scored 37 points, and his average over 3 years is 29.3. If he keeps improving, he has lots of time to catch up, or even surpass, the average player picked 4th in the draft.

That's interesting ...

Good way of looking at it. But how many were defensemen?

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's interesting ...

Good way of looking at it. But how many were defensemen?

There were 5 D's with an average best year of 32.2 points, and 5 forwards with an average best year of 65.4 points.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

There were 5 D's with an average best year of 32.2 points, and 5 forwards with an average best year of 65.4 points.

So in other words, out of all the forwards who were drafted 4th overall between 2006 and 2015, Bennett is the only one who didn't have a 57 point season before the age of 22. Or even a 50 point season. Or a 40 point season.

Best Seasons while under 22:
Marner 69 points at 20 years old
Ryan Johansen 62 points at 21 years old
Evander Kane 57 points at 20 years old
Nicklas Backstrom 101 points at 21 years old
Sam Bennett 36 points at 19 years old (best season to date).

Bennett is quite a bit better than Pouliot (2006), who could hardly break into the NHL before the age of 22. He has also been better than Stephen Weiss (2001) and Pavel Brendl (1999).

But like others have said, there's no use comparing at this point. He's an asset, and his drafting position doesn't really matter (other than the fact that Bennett should have potential). The Flames should try to get 40 points out of him this year, in which case we can be pleased.
He's way worse than any of the forwards drafted 4th overall since 2006; it doesn't matter how you look at it. This is well established. Now lets disregard his draft comparables, and just hope he develops well as an asset.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by chedder

"Friedman believes the Flames look at the Oilers trading Taylor Hall and wonder if the same could happen if they traded Bennett."

Friedman has to be out to lunch on this comment. Hall has been a 50 point plus player since day one and is now a point per game plus player.

I think anyone would be ecstatic if Bennett ever gets to 50 points.

Yeah. No comparison.
Hall was a greater than point per game player in his 3rd and 4th year. Bennett about 1/4 point per game in 3rd season.