The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[Jason14h]

My biggest issue is the entire plot device for half the movie didn't need to happen/made no sense.

30 minutes into this episode we see the Emperor has the ability to track through light speed, and the resistance is forces to stay out of range while their leader, Leia is unconscious.

A new leader/commander is appointed, however, it is not Poe, who is in fact demoted for being reckless.

When Poe, the greatest pilot in the resistance, and what seems like the most respected fight, asks what the plan is, he is told that they are heading to a new planet and will escape in the smaller pods that the emperor won't be monitoring...

No wait. Instead the new commander (can't remember her name) hides that there is a plan, because... well... I guess you don't want the remaining pilots in your fleet to know the plan??

This causes a 30-45 minutes of pointless scenes on a Casino planet, where I guess we needed some force fed message that anyone with money is an arms dealer and hates animals.

We then have a mutiny of the command ship (So clearly other pilots and crew think the new commander is incompetent as well) because she doesn't share the plan for the remaining 400? people, to teach??? Poe a lesson?

Then they enact the plan, but she stays behind because the main command ship doesn't have autopilot, or a heavy brick to put on the gas.

But luckily she can sacrifice herself to save the day...! Yay... But why didn't the other ship just light speed into the fleet when they were about to be out of gas. Better yet, why didn't the ships split up? They clearly knew they were running to a new planet, and most ships wouldn't have enough gas. Why didn't they go in different directions, or even have the non main command ship light speed away?

Once this horrid 1 hour of the movie was over, the last half was pretty enjoyable!

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I think that people's problems are totally valid by the way. This is a very loved franchise for many people, and it would be impossible for the film makers to please everyone. I was happy they took a few risks and moved the story away from what was expected. Others will not be happy they dropped so many things like Snoke...I will say that we have only seen 2/3rds of this trilogy's story, so will reserve some of that criticism until the story is complete.

Killing snoke is fine and is unpredictable. But now the trilogys main bad ugy, "the final boss" is a young sith who seems quite conflicted still, and not a great swordsman, or very powerful. In a one on one fight right now not even thru the 2nd movie, you would almost expect Rey to win a fight. This is poor planning and writing.

The whole silly space casino plot was also stupid. They went on a date to a space casino during this intense 18 hour chase? Just writing that down makes me stupid.

It's not that they took risks, it's that they were really lazy and stupid writing major points of this movie.

[White Out 403]

To add to what I saying before, I remember when Snoke died and Rey/Ren were fighting alongside each other I was like, almost ready to ask out loud at the theatre "WHOS THE BAD GUY NOW FFS!?". I was thinking, oh, maybe Luke comes back and is a total dick now and that's it.

Then after the fight ended it was kind of like when your done fapping or screwing and reality comes back in. "oh #### what just happened". The tension was there right away and I realized 'yup it still Ren whos the baddy'. Then a moment later I thought "oh man.. now he's the big cheese for bad guy inc.? damn it!"

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Killing snoke is fine and is unpredictable. But now the trilogys main bad ugy, "the final boss" is a young sith who seems quite conflicted still, and not a great swordsman, or very powerful. In a one on one fight right now not even thru the 2nd movie, you would almost expect Rey to win a fight. This is poor planning and writing.

The whole silly space casino plot was also stupid. They went on a date to a space casino during this intense 18 hour chase? Just writing that down makes me stupid.

It's not that they took risks, it's that they were really lazy and stupid writing major points of this movie.

Ren's entire arc is trying to live up to the Skywalker / Darth Vader bloodline. He is a young, scared, angry kid, who is being manipulated to the dark side. Yet, he still holds on to some humanity. (not blowing Leia up) Snoak's needed to die to make room for Ren in the final film.

I think the entire Casino sequence was to show that this universe is not just black & white, but shades of grey. It also served the purpose of showing that even though the Resistance is all but defeated, the spark will live on. The side mission was just the vehicle to get us there.

The film spends an hour directly telling us to forget the past..forget what we know.

[White Out 403]

Yes and a young, angry, scared kid doesn't make a great supreme leader of the universe

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I think the entire Casino sequence was to show that this universe is not just black & white, but shades of grey. It also served the purpose of showing that even though the Resistance is all but defeated, the spark will live on. The side mission was just the vehicle to get us there.

And would have been better portrayed by Luke and Rey's storyline, where Luke's journey should have been towards the grey, and leaving Rey with that message. That the light cannot exist without the dark, so the only way to end the battle between the two is to find balance in yourself with the two.

But we didn't get that. Instead we got a rushed story that had Rey already embracing the light and wanting to drag Kylo into it.

The film spends an hour directly telling us to forget the past..forget what we know.

Which again gets undercut by the clear good vs. bad battle we are left with in Ren and Rey, and Rey holding onto the old Jedi texts (them being destroyed would have been the best message possible for the direction of this trilogy), and the Rebels getting into their old ship.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Yes and a young, angry, scared kid doesn't make a great supreme leader of the universe

I kinda like it actually. I don't need more of the same. The Supreme Leader is now reckless, can be manipulated, makes poor/dumb/rash decisions.

I find that way more interesting then whatever snoak was

[dammage79]

I know it's JJ Abrams doing the third but I wonder what a guy like Chris Nolan could do with this franchise.

[Hack&Lube]

I'm just frustrated with the Abrams (LOST style) mysteries in Force Awakens having no payoff or resolution.

1. The lightsaber sparked visions and was the point of much of the quest. Nothing is revealed about how it ended up from Bespin to the magic treasure chest.

2. Knights of Ren are ignored completed. Rain scene ignored. Much of Rey's vision ignored.

3. Rey is barely trained at all and is suddenly one of the most powerful and natural light-side fighters of all time.

4. Snoke shows up and dies. Nothing explained about his origins. How did he infiltrate the training school and influence Kylo?

5. Was the dark-side chasm/pool with the mirror pointless? I thought it would be like the dark tree on Dagobah where Luke saw his dark-side path/destiny as the next Vader. Instead, Rey just asked to find her parents and saw her own reflection. What does that have to do with the dark side?

All in all the new trilogy has thrown away all the potential of really giving an emotional resolution to things from the original trilogy and has cast them aside. It could have given us a good story about Anakin's saber. It could have let Han Solo actually meet Luke Skywalker and have a funny moment like "come on kid! (and Luke isn't a kid anymore). Snoke could have had more to tie him into Sith lore and how he managed to gather so much power. Luke could have had a better send-off. Admiral Ackbar should have been the Jurassic Park girl and been the one to survive and ram the ship at lightspeed.

[Harry Lime]

The Problem : the entire casino sidebar deflates all gravity and suspense from the main storyline.

The Solution : Put Del Toro in prison on the Imperial ship instead. Get inside the shields by playing dead, 'flotsam', just like Han did on the way to Lando System. Ship debris is everywhere. Del Toro turns heel to teach them a lesson on light vs. dark. This would actually add tension.

The Problem : The unfortunate death of Fisher means that she is not present in Episode 9. She could have had a heart rending send off in this movie. There was time, in the real world, to fix this.

The Solution : She dies in space. She is retrieved and lies in state until Force Luke comes to stand over her and say his goodbyes, before facing her son. All sorts of emotional fulfillment.

Was that hard, Rian Johnson?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The Problem : the entire casino sidebar deflates all gravity and suspense from the main storyline.

The Solution : Put Del Toro in prison on the Imperial ship instead. Get inside the shields by playing dead, 'flotsam', just like Han did on the way to Lando System. Ship debris is everywhere. Del Toro turns heel to teach them a lesson on light vs. dark. This would actually add tension.

The Problem : The unfortunate death of Fisher means that she is not present in Episode 9. She could have had a heart rending send off in this movie. There was time, in the real world, to fix this.

The Solution : She dies in space. She is retrieved and lies in state until Force Luke comes to stand over her and say his goodbyes, before facing her son. All sorts of emotional fulfillment.

Was that hard, Rian Johnson?

And really this is the problem it's the movie. It has all the pieces to make it amazing it was just put together poorly and misused its extended runtime

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I know it's JJ Abrams doing the third but I wonder what a guy like Chris Nolan could do with this franchise.

I imagine the films would be a lot darker with Nolan at the helm. I remember reading that Spielberg, Guillermo Del Toro, and David Fincher were all approached at one point by Lucasfilm about directing Force Awakens. Even JJ Abrams turned them down initially before eventually agreeing to do it.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by direwolf

I imagine the films would be a lot darker with Nolan at the helm. I remember reading that Spielberg, Guillermo Del Toro, and David Fincher were all approached at one point by Lucasfilm about directing Force Awakens. Even JJ Abrams turned them down initially before eventually agreeing to do it.

No director has the latitude to put their personal stamp on the Star Wars franchise, not even a name like Nolan. Emperor Mickey (or Supreme Leader Kathleen) would force choke any ideas of giving it a Batman or Inception-like feel.

[DiracSpike]

Now compare this to Snoke, who apparently created the First Order but we're never given an explanation as to WHAT the First Order even is in any way, shape, or form. The Empire in the OT was the main galaxy-wide antagonistic force with immense power and resources because it's a galactic empire. The First Order? No, seriously, what even is the First Order supposed to be other than the directors being too lazy to think of new villains so they reused the Imperial Army assets? I've been dying to find this out only to be given nothing...again.

This is my huge overarching problem with these new movies and for me why they're on prequel level. This bad guy makes no sense and just seems lazy. Like they're still entertaining movies, and I don't miss the 20 bucks I invested into the experience of watching this movie last night, but I just can't get over how dumb the first order is

[Max Cow Disease]

This drawing of a straight line between what people's expectations should be regarding the story in this movie/trilogy and what they were with the OT doesn't make any sense. A New Hope came out 40 years ago, and entered the world at a time when Star Wars entirely didn't exist and people had no idea what was going on. Zap forward to now and the state of the Star Wars canon as it is -a rich, fleshed out universe rife with little details and full of characters to whom people have become attached and with whom they're familiar- and it should be clear that we're not viewing Last Jedi in some vacuum. It doesn't mean that these movies shouldn't take things in a new direction or attempt to stand on their own merits, but anything that comes out at this point has to heed the backstory and the status of the franchise to a degree.

And that's what chokes me about the handling of Snoke. I'd contend that he WAS a potentially very interesting character, and that providing some more context could have been a great way to up the stakes in this trilogy and provide more weight to the conflict. All of the OT's primary characters that carried through to this new series seem to have known who Snoke is. He seems incredibly powerful and oversaw the formation of a capable paramilitary force in the First Order as well as a mysterious group called the Knights of Ren. He seduced and corrupted the son/nephew of one of sci-fi's most important trios of all time. Who is this guy?

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

No director has the latitude to put their personal stamp on the Star Wars franchise, not even a name like Nolan. Emperor Mickey (or Supreme Leader Kathleen) would force choke any ideas of giving it a Batman or Inception-like feel.

Not necessarily. I thought Rogue One had a noticeably darker tone than either of FA or TLJ, and proved that Disney/Lucasfilm is willing to take a few risks with the franchise.

[Jbo]

Saw this on Reddit and it made me laugh.(credit: notbad4ahuman) Seems about right:

They build him up to be the biggest bad of the universe, only showing him in hologram form in the last movie and not revealing anything about his past.

You know he’s a badass because the main villain of the trilogy even bows down to him.

Then, when the protagonist gives themselves up to confront him, his apprentice takes him out like a chump!?!

Where is the back story we were promised?! Why didn’t he see it coming if he’s such a powerful force user?!

Anyway, enough about Return of the Jedi. How’s the new Rian Johnson flick?

[White Out 403]

Yeah that'd be funny except for the fact that the original trilogy wrapped up with that and the apprentice being redeemed. You know, a nice little ending. This is the 2nd act ffs.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Yeah that'd be funny except for the fact that the original trilogy wrapped up with that and the apprentice being redeemed. You know, a nice little ending. This is the 2nd act ffs.

Nope. Still funny

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Nope. Still funny

I don't think anyone who isn't a die hard SW fan really cares/cared about Snoke, and most liked that scene. (Personally one of the best scenes in any SW film to me)

It's just a bad story, badly edited, non sensical film with terrible acting.

My guess is if this wasn't a SW branded film it would be up for flop of the year