2022 Toronto Raptors Off-season Thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Hilariously enough the Warriors can offer probably the ideal package of lots of picks and young guys. I don't see how Siakam and OG gets it done, unless there is a third team involved to take Siakam and/or OG for more picks for the Nets. Siakam is useless to a team entering a full rebuild, plus they'd owe him a max soon and their cap is still a mess.

[kobasew19]

Do NBA players under contracts have any leverage in where they could be traded?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Siakam made all NBA 3rd team this year . And the Raptors are one of the few teams with all their 1sts going forward

You could easily argue Siakam is the best player being offered on the market . Add in the picks and another good young player it’s a pretty great package

You make great points but personally I don’t see Siakam more than a 2nd option at best on a championship team. Very much a Demar type player in not leading your team night in and out; or being very inconsistent when it’s a pressure situation. It may be compelling on paper but I think teams are wise to his mental lapses. Does he have higher potential, yes. Same with OG.

Anyway, I also think Flynn is the first Raptor gone in any deal. No chance he returns.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by fleury

You make great points but personally I don’t see Siakam more than a 2nd option at best on a championship team. Very much a Demar type player in not leading your team night in and out; or being very inconsistent when it’s a pressure situation. It may be compelling on paper but I think teams are wise to his mental lapses. Does he have higher potential, yes. Same with OG.

Anyway, I also think Flynn is the first Raptor gone in any deal. No chance he returns.

Yeah. I love P, but he isn’t a #1 option on a championship winning team. Scottie has a higher chance of becoming that type of player than Pascal does at this point in Pascal’s career. But that’s obviously has yet to be seen

[octothorp]

It's weird that the market for KD is as cool as it is, but I think that's because it came out of nowhere. Usually teams are getting an inkling that a guy's going to be available months in advance, and would be getting trade assets, three-way-deal options all lined up. It seems like this legitimately came out of nowhere, and most teams are just throwing their hands up in the air and saying they're out. The fact that the Raptors are one of the few teams involved speaks to how well-prepared the Raptors FO is. They've kept the roster full of useful, tradeable contracts for a reason.

There's some interesting timing that's going to come into play in the next couple days: On the 6th, the timer starts on any RFAs who sign an offer sheet for their original team to match. There's speculation that the Pacers are looking at signing Ayton to a max offer sheet, which, if it happened, would mean he couldn't be used in a S&T even if the Suns matched. So there's some incentive for the Suns to get this done before then... but if Ayton's insistent on signing an offer sheet, they don't have options here. But if Ayton wants to get out of Phoenix, the offer sheet isn't necessarily the best way, because it might force Phoenix to match, and then he becomes harder to move this summer. Ayton being out might shrink the trade market so much that Brooklyn just keeps KD and waits for the preseason to see if prices rise.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Hilariously enough the Warriors can offer probably the ideal package of lots of picks and young guys. I don't see how Siakam and OG gets it done, unless there is a third team involved to take Siakam and/or OG for more picks for the Nets. Siakam is useless to a team entering a full rebuild, plus they'd owe him a max soon and their cap is still a mess.

Where have the Nets said they were entering a rebuild?

Without their picks I think they will look to maximize the Durant return with a mix of real players and picks , try to get something for Kyrie (or trade for Westbrook and use the expiring contract to go after a FA in offseason) and use the picks for Durant to get more help

The Nets don’t have the rights to their 1st rounder for 5 years. Not sure why they would rebuild (per se). Tanking doesn’t help them . I think they try to retool and stay competitive

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Yeah. I love P, but he isn’t a #1 option on a championship winning team. Scottie has a higher chance of becoming that type of player than Pascal does at this point in Pascal’s career. But that’s obviously has yet to be seen

But Nets aren’t getting a #1 superstar in the trade from anyone

And they don’t have any of their 1st so tanking isn’t an option/doesn’t benefit them

There are very few teams with a combination of picks and players who can get involved

Siakam just made the third team all NBA and actually showed a real step forward in his game . He isn’t the guy to win you a championship - But his value is very high

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Where have the Nets said they were entering a rebuild?

Without their picks I think they will look to maximize the Durant return with a mix of real players and picks , try to get something for Kyrie (or trade for Westbrook and use the expiring contract to go after a FA in offseason) and use the picks for Durant to get more help

The Nets don’t have the rights to their 1st rounder for 5 years. Not sure why they would rebuild (per se). Tanking doesn’t help them . I think they try to retool and stay competitive

To stay competitive they have to go deep into the luxury tax. But once you've given up on Durant and Kyrie spending $250 million a season to be capped at 14th best team in the league is supreme idiocy. Their draft pick problems are exactly why they need to maximize draft capital coming back, they need to replenish. Double and tripling down on stupidity is what horrible franchises do, if the Nets are forced to move on here they should just take the bath and start rebuilding. Chasing 14th so you don't give up high lottery picks is how you stay in perpetual mediocrity. It sucks they are going to end up giving up a few lottery picks, but if they chase 14th to avoid that they could end up being the Knicks in the long run, and ain't no one want to be the Knicks. Bottom out, take your medicine, move on.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Siakam just made the third team all NBA and actually showed a real step forward in his game . He isn’t the guy to win you a championship - But his value is very high

Only to a contender. But his value to a team chasing 14th place is negative when you consider you'll have to pay him a max in two years, and that he'll be 30 when you give him that max.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

To stay competitive they have to go deep into the luxury tax. But once you've given up on Durant and Kyrie spending $250 million a season to be capped at 14th best team in the league is supreme idiocy. Their draft pick problems are exactly why they need to maximize draft capital coming back, they need to replenish. Double and tripling down on stupidity is what horrible franchises do, if the Nets are forced to move on here they should just take the bath and start rebuilding. Chasing 14th so you don't give up high lottery picks is how you stay in perpetual mediocrity. It sucks they are going to end up giving up a few lottery picks, but if they chase 14th to avoid that they could end up being the Knicks in the long run, and ain't no one want to be the Knicks. Bottom out, take your medicine, move on.

They'll tank for a year maybe.. but they have an uber rich owner and will get a bazillion picks and be back chasing free agents after a year.

[bluejays]

Right now I'm thinking no team wants Masai to win again in a deal, so he may have to overpay. So I do think a team like Phoenix will pay up. Tough letting Masai come out with the best player again, if the Raps did win it the media would rub it in. Tough to win too many deals, especially high profile ones.

[GreenLantern2814]

I appreciate that he’s Kevin Durant and all, but a guy who demanded a trade after signing for 4 years $194M and could just as easily demand a trade from whoever gets him in 12 months if things don’t go his way isn’t worth a king’s ransom.

Nobody’s gutting their roster for a 34 year old Durant.

The Warriors don’t need him.

I could be wrong, but I see the secondary pieces on the Suns and Heat not having near as value as the secondary pieces on the Raptors.

Brooklyn isn’t looking to fix everything with this trade - they’re looking for ammunition and future tradeable pieces. OG and Trent would seem to have that in spades. Plus whatever picks are needed to make it work.

A core 4 of Durant, Siakam, FVV and Barnes is something you can work with.

[Senator Clay Davis]

When you think about it more, about what a drama queen and attention whore Durant is too....yeah the Nets are running it back next year lol. What could two drama queens like Kyrie and Durant want more than an entire year of focus on them and every bit of drama, about whether they'll be dealt, or maybe they're amazing with Ben Simmons, or whatever. Actually getting traded is the worst for either of them because the attention quickly fades away. Staying in Brooklyn keeps the drama meter at 10.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

When you think about it more, about what a drama queen and attention whore Durant is too....yeah the Nets are running it back next year lol. What could two drama queens like Kyrie and Durant want more than an entire year of focus on them and every bit of drama, about whether they'll be dealt, or maybe they're amazing with Ben Simmons, or whatever. Actually getting traded is the worst for either of them because the attention quickly fades away. Staying in Brooklyn keeps the drama meter at 10.

I think both Kyrie and KD, fundamentally, want to be beloved. They don’t want the firehose of negative energy that comes from the entire world rooting against them.

They want to be treated like Mike and Magic, even though they’re obviously not.

KD sees himself on LeBron’s level, but he’s not. He hasn’t carried dog#### teams to the finals - he’s the guy who couldn’t win anything with James Harden and Russell Westbrook in the primes of their careers.

Kyrie is literally nothing without LeBron. He doesn’t even call himself a basketball player, he calls himself an artist. Buy yourself some water colours and canvas then - you get paid $37M a year to hoop, and produce wins.

Kyrie missed half the season because he “did his own research” about the COVID vaccines, but he doesn’t have the self-awareness to realize that he’s the world’s worst internet researcher. Never mind relying on Kyrie Irving to help your basketball team, you can’t rely on him to know the shape of the Earth.

In a way, they’re both sort of the worst type of pro athlete, where they want to be admired for what they ‘can’ do, rather than what they do. They’re both supremely talented, but it takes more than that.

When Mike took things personally, he busted peoples asses and gave em 60.

When KD or Kyrie or Harden, or Kawhi take things personally, they quit and change teams.

All that said, if KD wants to be beloved, the best fit is the Raptors.

[Senator Clay Davis]

If KD wants to be loved his best fit is to get a dog. But yeah the last few weeks have undoubtedly been disastrous for his legacy, Warriors win another ring without him and now he looks like one of the mentally softest players ever. He might need to adopt an entire rescue of dogs to cheer him up.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by fleury

Right now I'm thinking no team wants Masai to win again in a deal, so he may have to overpay. So I do think a team like Phoenix will pay up. Tough letting Masai come out with the best player again, if the Raps did win it the media would rub it in. Tough to win too many deals, especially high profile ones.

Phoenix doesn't have as many good players as Toronto. They have 2 really good players - who it doesn't make any sense to trade. And then they have Ayton who has a mixed reputation and the Nets may not like then you have guys who likely aren't as good as OG. They are better at the top end but the Raptors are pretty unique in terms of good players on a roster.

They do like the Raptors have all their draft picks with value so they can match that part of the trade.

[octothorp]

At this point I don't see why the Nets don't just shut it down for now... and the fact they're acquiring a few minor free agents suggests that they are leaning in that direction. There's no way they won't get a better offer later... in two months, players traded this offseason will be eligible to be aggregated in trades, and December 15 most free agents signed this offseason will be (but not Ayton).

I see this playing out where the Nets hold steady for now, Phoenix gets the best deal they can for Ayton now, trying to get assets that the Nets like and avoiding an offer sheet, and then will try again in the preseason.

[bluejays]

I think Greenlantern hit the nail on the head regarding Kyrie and Durant. They definitely want to be loved by all, but their entitlement to do minimal and still wanting to be admired, is a really silly thing on their part. They're always playing victim. Toronto is a sports town where if you play hard night after night the fans will love you. Durant on the Raps could be something special if he tries. Now, if I recall he may have some particular interests with the ladies, so would it work in Toronto? No clue.


Trade wise, it really is looking like they won't have to break the bank too much given the competition out there. Siakam, OG, GTJ (probably the former two) and three draft picks is probably the cost to save some type of face for Brooklyn, at least that's what I'm thinking. It's really not that bad considering they'll also get a return from a Kyrie deal which could essentially make them a deep team much like the Raptors are currently.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by kobasew19

Do NBA players under contracts have any leverage in where they could be traded?

NBA elite stars just do whatever they want including refusing to play for a team if they don’t want to and going to a strop club on game night after gaining 40 pounds. They have the most leverage of all.

[octothorp]

Raptors had a great, under-the-radar move to announce today, which is that Rico Hines has signed on as an assistant coach. He's one of the most respected offseason trainers in the league, and Siakam has worked with him most summers, and he's been part of the Sacramento staff the last couple years, working with Haliburton and Fox in particular there. For a team that keeps losing coaching staff, this was a huge pickup, and as a primarily development-focused guy, hopefully he won't be poached for a HC job any time soon.