Daylight Saving Time

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Kidder

Forgive me if this has been answered already in the thread.

How come we are voting about this in a municipal election? Isn’t it a Provincial decision? How can Calgary decide for the entire province or would it just be the city making the change?

The province chose to confuse municipal elections with stuff that have nothing to do with local government. It’s what they do.

[nfotiu]

How come no big brain has come up with the ideal solution yet? Keep ST in the morning and DT in the afternoon? Spring ahead at 1pm every day, and fall back at 1am every night. Win-win for everyone!

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

How come no big brain has come up with the ideal solution yet? Keep ST in the morning and DT in the afternoon? Spring ahead at 1pm every day, and fall back at 1am every night. Win-win for everyone!

You don’t work in payroll do you.

[TorqueDog]

Maybe we should just leave it the hell alone instead of making changes like this independently of the rest of North America. We don't operate in a vacuum, and who the hell wants to be like Saskatchewan?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Yeah this is one of the dumber referendums I can recall. Is this even binding? I doubt anything changes.

[Geraldsh]

I did my civic duty. There should have been 3 choices: pacific time, mountain time, fluctuating time. Instead I had to choose the lesser of two evils. There are in-laws in British Columbia and in Saskatchewan- no time works for them

[DownInFlames]

I don't get what the big deal is with the sun coming out after 8. Just get up later.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Just to put this in perspective for those voting Monday...

If we go permanent DST, today is the last day the sun would rise before 8:00am until March 10. Yes, March. This change is not good for our biological clock.

Sent from my VOG-L04 using Tapatalk

Civil twilight is a more meaningful measure - the point when artificial lighting is not necessary...usually about 30 mins earlier than sunrise, with 'nautical twilight' another ~ 40 mins earlier meaning some light in the sky.

Ultimately it shouldn't matter that much which time we end up on...individually and societally we can try to tweak our schedules at the extreme dates to best suit ourselves. The time changes are like taking a sledgehammer to a housefly.

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Maybe we should just leave it the hell alone instead of making changes like this independently of the rest of North America. We don't operate in a vacuum, and who the hell wants to be like Saskatchewan?

Several jurisdictions have passed laws saying "we're on board to change as soon as xyz change, too (or congress approves)"...it just needs to reach a point of critical mass, and it seems we are getting pretty close. Pretty sure BC, California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming are among them.

https://www.almanac.com/content/stop...ht-saving-time

EU is/was planning to abolish it too, but apparently COVID may have delayed it. Argentina, Russia, and Turkey have already killed it.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah this is one of the dumber referendums I can recall. Is this even binding? I doubt anything changes.

I believe that the DST question is binding. The senate and equalization questions are a charade, but this one could actually change something.

[Party Elephant]

There is a group in NZ called "Ban Daylight Savings Movement - BDSM", and their whole schtick is to get into arguments in Facebook comment sections on stories that have nothing to do with it.

Ex: "Why is the government talking about vaccines when there are more important issues like getting rid of daylight savings?"

And it draws in replies like moths to a lamp, usually a mix of arguing the merits of daylight savings or pointing out the other meaning of their acronym. It is one of the most brilliant pieces of trolling that I have ever seen.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

how come no big brain has come up with the ideal solution yet? Keep st in the morning and dt in the afternoon? Spring ahead at 1pm every day, and fall back at 1am every night. Win-win for everyone!

0:00 am
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23:00 pm

[Ducay]

I think prior to this referendum, everyone at first blush probably would have been in favor of permanent summer (woo evening sun!), but I do think it has been beneficial in educating everyone on the true situation of Calgary's longitude and impacts. If a national move (with US) ever arises to abolish DST, I could see Calgary actually moving to PST now that everyone is better educated.

[Jimmy Stang]

^ I'll admit that was me a while back. No changing clocks? Evening sun? Sign me up.

But I have become quite concerned about the real impact, I have voted against it, and I actually think that we won't last more than 2 years on permanent DST if it is adopted. Once people actually experience 0930 sunrises, 9pm local start times for Hockey Night in Canada doubleheaders (or any west coast game), and relative varying time zones across the continent, they'll realize the mistake.

Right now, the only time zone (that matters) that varies from a Calgary perspective is Saskatchewan. If permenent DST is adopted, Vancouver will be 1 or 2 hours different, Toronto 1 or 2 hours the other way. Nearly every time zone (from a Calgary perspective) will change twice a year, which I think will be more confusing than just playing along and changing our clocks.

In other words : do it nationally/continentally, or don't bother. And if we do it, give solar noon a little bit more consideration.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

It truly was a monumentally stupid decision for the UCP to make this a binding referendum. Politicians can barely function in their jobs, let alone leaving complex decisions like this one to the mouth breathers who inhabit our province.

You’re absolutely right that most people that vote yes will do so completely not understanding the effects and only think of those two benefits you listed.

This has Brexit written all over it. Not in terms of scope obviously but in terms of support and subsequent regret. We are going to need our very own r/LeopardsAteMyFace thread when people start flipping out over the multitude of massive negative results this will cause.

Thankfully this isn’t going to happen for at least a year so maybe by then the government can find a way to reverse course.

[calumniate]

Dr. Hinshaw please read (if you have time on your hands)

[TheIronMaiden]

I like the idea of people changing their clocks because it reminds folks that time is a social construct.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ I'll admit that was me a while back. No changing clocks? Evening sun? Sign me up.

But I have become quite concerned about the real impact, I have voted against it, and I actually think that we won't last more than 2 years on permanent DST if it is adopted. Once people actually experience 0930 sunrises, 9pm local start times for Hockey Night in Canada doubleheaders (or any west coast game), and relative varying time zones across the continent, they'll realize the mistake.

Right now, the only time zone (that matters) that varies from a Calgary perspective is Saskatchewan. If permenent DST is adopted, Vancouver will be 1 or 2 hours different, Toronto 1 or 2 hours the other way. Nearly every time zone (from a Calgary perspective) will change twice a year, which I think will be more confusing than just playing along and changing our clocks.

In other words : do it nationally/continentally, or don't bother. And if we do it, give solar noon a little bit more consideration.

Those things are already experienced by millions of people and they function completely fine. I'm basically convinced that had this referendum been held in June as opposed to now it would have passed easily. People are too concerned about the morning darkness to make a rational decision though. The idea of permanent standard time is just silly. Who is looking for the 4:30am sunrises in the summers and evenings to have the sun go down at 9-9:30 instead of 10-10:30? One of the best things about our latitude are those fantastic, long summer evenings. Would people really give that up for the light at 8:30 on a December morning? It's just a poor tradeoff in my opinion.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Those things are already experienced by millions of people and they function completely fine. I'm basically convinced that had this referendum been held in June as opposed to now it would have passed easily. People are too concerned about the morning darkness to make a rational decision though. The idea of permanent standard time is just silly. Who is looking for the 4:30am sunrises in the summers and evenings to have the sun go down at 9-9:30 instead of 10-10:30? One of the best things about our latitude are those fantastic, long summer evenings. Would people really give that up for the light at 8:30 on a December morning? It's just a poor tradeoff in my opinion.

For the solstice, civil twilight would start around 3:30 am. Not really interested in that.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Slava

Those things are already experienced by millions of people and they function completely fine. I'm basically convinced that had this referendum been held in June as opposed to now it would have passed easily. People are too concerned about the morning darkness to make a rational decision though. The idea of permanent standard time is just silly. Who is looking for the 4:30am sunrises in the summers and evenings to have the sun go down at 9-9:30 instead of 10-10:30? One of the best things about our latitude are those fantastic, long summer evenings. Would people really give that up for the light at 8:30 on a December morning? It's just a poor tradeoff in my opinion.

Literally nobody in North America is going to their hockey stadium for a 9pm puck drop. Yet. Under permanent DST, that'll be the Flames and Oilers for much of the season. Sure, mostly Saturday nights, but 8pm is plenty late enough.

Of course higher latitude have later sunrises, but they are generally more equally straddling solar noon. Calgary is already off-centred from our mathematical time zone, and permanent DST will further exaggerate it by another hour. For me it isn't the amount of daylight, as we can't change that, but the increased imbalance or mornings vs. evenings. If we love our summer nights, just keep the status quo. No need to rob the hour from winter mornings.

But I think that we are generally in agreement.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Literally nobody in North America is going to their hockey stadium for a 9pm puck drop. Yet. Under permanent DST, that'll be the Flames and Oilers for much of the season. Sure, mostly Saturday nights, but 8pm is plenty late enough.

Of course higher latitude have later sunrises, but they are generally more equally straddling solar noon. Calgary is already off-centred from our mathematical time zone, and permanent DST will further exaggerate it by another hour. For me it isn't the amount of daylight, as we can't change that, but the increased imbalance or mornings vs. evenings. If we love our summer nights, just keep the status quo. No need to rob the hour from winter mornings.

But I think that we are generally in agreement.

So just drop the puck at 7pm local time? Winnipeg, Chicago and others seem to make that work just fine? Like those kinds of issues are the easiest to deal with to me. The NHL can worry about whether they have late games to play a double-header every week.