2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, I would hope the Flames doctors are providing Treliving with the proper information for him to decide one way or the other. If Treliving were to go against their recommendation, go rouge, and trade for Eichel, only to have him turn out to be a shell of his former self with the price to acquire him is as it has been reported (4 first round equivalents), then yes, that would almost certainly end Treliving's career as a GM whether it be here or elsewhere. Frankly this seems to be a far fetched scenario.

I can't imagine this trade not including at least one first round pick. But the good thing about draft picks is that every year 31 other teams have seven of them, more or less. You can always get them back. Look no further than Arizona. I think at this time last year they had a significant deficit. Now they have 8 in the top 64 of this years draft. Picks can be replaced, very easily, if you want to.

Picks can be easily replaced, but not top 5-10, teams rarely trade those away, because they suck and need the influx of young cost controlled talent that can start contributing with a year or two

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I chalk it up to hiring a GM who lacked experience, GG seemed in over his head and Peters I thought did a good job but may have lost the team at some point. Not sure Ward was the right choice, he also lacked experience and struggled to motivate the team. Sutter is the only coach so far that has emphasized the importance of experience, not just with coaches but also with young players. It only takes one player with a lack of experience to lose the game, Sutter recognizes this and has ramped up expectations and attention to detail. Before Sutter the team didn't seem to have an identity, it was hard to tell from night to night what type of team we were. Were we hard-working, fast, big? We seemed to be a little bit of everything.

Under the previous coaches and some success, we seemed inconsistent and the team often dictated how they wanted to play. Certain players taking nights off, the first line would show up but not the second line. Sometimes it was certain players mailing it in with poor efforts and coaches giving ice time to players like "Lazy Neal" and repeatedly sticking with Troy Brouwer on the Brouwer-play even when it wasn't working.

Much is on the players but lack of experience can creates its own challenges.

I think Sutter is a good choice because he seems willing to adapt and the emphasis is on winning games and not experimenting with certain ideas that might not be working.

Again, I have a hard time believing Ward was ‘Treliving’s guy’. I think Sutter was who they wanted and when he wasn’t available, they collectively made the decision to bide their time.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Picks can be easily replaced, but not top 5-10, teams rarely trade those away, because they suck and need the influx of young cost controlled talent that can start contributing with a year or two

Yeah, those are more difficult to acquire, but Arizona acquired one last year in the Garland-OEL trade. It is not as though the Flames have no assets anyone would ever want. I think some here like to paint the picture that the Flames have nothing of value whatsoever. That’s simply not true.

[browntrout]

A healthy Eichel commands first round picks, no question about that, a seriously injured Eichel does not. I could see teams maybe including a first round pick, but it would almost certainly be top 5 protected or something like that. I am sure there would need additional protection like Eichel would have to play so many games in 2022-2023 with no setback in the surgery or a reinjury in the neck again.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by NewFan

If Chicago keeps losing, how much will cost to trade for Toews?

One of the last players we should be trading for.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Again, I have a hard time believing Ward was ‘Treliving’s guy’. I think Sutter was who they wanted and when he wasn’t available, they collectively made the decision to bide their time.

I don't disagree, you could be right, but some of the underlying problems started a lot sooner than Ward. I think BT is a smart man and has shown a willingness to adapt. I think the Flames have added a lot more experience overall, which I think should provide more stability.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by browntrout

A healthy Eichel commands first round picks, no question about that, a seriously injured Eichel does not. I could see teams maybe including a first round pick, but it would almost certainly be top 5 protected or something like that. I am sure there would need additional protection like Eichel would have to play so many games in 2022-2023 with no setback in the surgery or a reinjury in the neck again.

One would hope so and pizza guy better have learned from past mistakes. If not for Mark Jankowski leading the Flames to victory in the last game of the 2017-18 season, Flames would have essentially traded Andrei Svechnikov and 2 seconds for Hamonic.

[gvitaly]

Every time CP crashes, I end up going on twitter searching for trade news.You guys almost convinced me we're getting Eichel, well at least one can dream.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by browntrout

A healthy Eichel commands first round picks, no question about that, a seriously injured Eichel does not. I could see teams maybe including a first round pick, but it would almost certainly be top 5 protected or something like that. I am sure there would need additional protection like Eichel would have to play so many games in 2022-2023 with no setback in the surgery or a reinjury in the neck again.

I think it’s very likely the picks would have conditions placed on them specific to number of games played and/or making the playoffs.

[Vinny01]

More Eichel discussion with Marek and Friedman. Debating when this ends and they keep saying every week this needs to end. 5 teams are good with the surgery but other teams agree with Buffalo.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think it’s very likely the picks would have conditions placed on them specific to number of games played and/or making the playoffs.

If the pick is in 2022, I could see it being conditional based on making the playoffs. However, if the pick is in 2023, I could see it being conditional solely on Eichel’s performance/ games played rather than the success of the team that acquired him. Buffalo will want there to be at least a chance that the pick could end up being pretty high so they would likely prefer the pick only have conditions on Eichel’s play… a team could acquire eichel and he could be a ppg player for them who plays 70+ games in 2023 and they could still be a bad team that finishes to near the bottom of the league (Buffalo was bad despite eichel being good).

In the most recent examples of top players traded while under contract (Karlsson and Duchene), it was the pick that ended up being the most valuable piece in the trade because those picks ended up being a lot higher than the teams acquiring the star player thought they would be. I think buffalo’s best hope of winning this trade is a scenario like this.


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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Winning a lottery for a #1C is more likely, since you can plan, manipulate the odds, and centers of that tier rarely fall far.

But it might not happen on your first attempt. It might take more than a year.

That's why a two-year stretch where Shane Wright (2022) and Connor Bedard (2023) are the prize is a nobrainer year

Half thr players you named are wingers, and we've shown an abilility to draft quality wingers late like Mangiapane and Gaudreau, and you can always stumble across a Tkachuk or Lindholm type in a failed tank year. But centers are virtually impossible to qcquire without going for it. We never got a center for Iginla, we never got a center for Gaudreau. I'm fed up with doing it all wrong.

You realize even the worst team in the NHL which is an accomplishment in itself has around an 80% chance of not picking first

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You realize even the worst team in the NHL which is an accomplishment in itself has around an 80% chance of not picking first

100% chance of picking top 3 though, which will be a pretty good consolation prize in the next two drafts.

[Monahammer]

There is solid potential #1C talent throughout the top 10 in the 2022 draft. Not only wright, but Geekie, Savoie, Lambert, Nemec, and Cooley. 2023 obviously has Michkov and Bedard on top as well, but also Benson and Fantili that look like great canadian forwards. Now is the time to tank a bit IMO, if there ever was one.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

There is solid potential #1C talent throughout the top 10 in the 2022 draft. Not only wright, but Geekie, Savoie, Lambert, Nemec, and Cooley. 2023 obviously has Michkov and Bedard on top as well. Now is the time to tank a bit IMO, if there ever was one.

Especially given the timeline to the new arena.

Tank it up in the Dome and build some young momentum heading into the new arena. By the time the 2024 season rolls around, we could be a really exciting young team.

...if they just keep doing what they're doing now? Peddling the definition of mediocrity? Good luck to them on selling those seats.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Especially given the timeline to the new arena.

Tank it up in the Dome and build some young momentum heading into the new arena. By the time the 2024 season rolls around, we could be a really exciting young team.

...if they just keep doing what they're doing now? Peddling the definition of mediocrity? Good luck to them on selling those seats.

Isn’t what you are suggesting is rushing another rebuild? Tank for 3 years and hope to compete again

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Winning a lottery for a #1C is more likely, since you can plan, manipulate the odds, and centers of that tier rarely fall far...

I don't really have anything to add except to say that this is laughably naive. While I agree that winning a lottery for a chance to draft a #1 centre is more likely than finding one in round #2, I reject out of hand the notion that this can be "planned for." Teams that end up at the bottom of the NHL standings do so by accident. No team ever has said: "now is the time to jettison our current core and start afresh with a new collection of high draft picks." Teams that rebuild do so out of necessity, not by choice.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

You realize even the worst team in the NHL which is an accomplishment in itself has around an 80% chance of not picking first

I don't know, if I was down to my last dollar and knew I had a 20% chance of winning the 6/49, I would probably buy a lottery ticket rather than a donut. I wouldn't sell my house for the chance though, but this team isn't a house at this point.

It's not like we would be giving up a contender for a chance at the lottery. This team will be forced to rebuild at some point in the foreseeable future, so I don't see the point of just hanging in there long enough to miss the 2022 and 2023 extravaganza. It would be such a Flames thing to do though.

By all means, bookmark this post and if I am wrong and this team is somehow looking at a playoff run this year, I will gladly eat crow.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't know, if I was down to my last dollar and knew I had a 20% chance of winning the 6/49, I would probably buy a lottery ticket rather than a donut. I wouldn't sell my house for the chance though, but this team isn't a house at this point.

It's not like we would be giving up a contender for a chance at the lottery. This team will be forced to rebuild at some point in the foreseeable future, so I don't see the point of just hanging in there long enough to miss the 2022 and 2023 extravaganza. It would be such a Flames thing to do though.

By all means, bookmark this post and if I am wrong and this team is somehow looking at a playoff run this year, I will gladly eat crow.

If you had a 20% chance of winning the 6/49, the prize would be $3

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Isn’t what you are suggesting is rushing another rebuild? Tank for 3 years and hope to compete again

2-3 years of actual tanking isn't what I'd call rushing a rebuild.

2021/2022: Sell-off. Get the biggest returns you can for Gaudreau, Tkachuk etc.

2022/2023: Sell-off continued. Hanifin, Tanev, Backlund, Monahan - everyone on the table. No bolstering the roster via free agency, try and maximize available cap-space by being a dumping place for other team's problems. Retain cap on players to maximize the return. Hard tank year.

2023/2024: Hard tank year.

Off-Season 2024: Begin the build.

The key to the rebuild would be maximizing the sell-off and truly actually tanking. Be a salary floor team, unless you can really maximize that cap space by taking on bad contracts.