Ongoing YYCCC (Chu + Farkas) Transgressions Threat

[GreenLantern2814]

Personally, I think political ads on tv and radio should be illegal outside of designated election times.

Go talk to the people, don’t spam my ####ing hockey games with partisan garbage.

I’m aware this is an extreme position.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by La Flames Fan

Mayor Nenshi asked a pretty good question in his letter posted on Twitter today.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1449759179883704327

I don't think Davidson or Fark(no)us has answered those questions in any real-world way.

As for Gondek, here's what her principles on Property Taxes are.

Yeah I read this earlier.

She has not committed to freezing taxes (or lowering them!) that I like to see in my candidates.

Her site has a lot of fluff.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but our taxes have increased by less than our population growth and inflation since 2016. We cannot sustain this forever.

I personally don’t think the average household can sustain the tax bill that keeps raising from every level of government.

This is my fundamental issue. There is wayyyy too much tax in this country.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I personally don’t think the average household can sustain the tax bill that keeps raising from every level of government.

This is my fundamental issue. There is wayyyy too much tax in this country.

Honest question for you - what are you willing to trade for your tax relief and what is an acceptable tax rate (property, income, etc.)? Is there a country you'd want to mirror?

I'm genuinely curious, I don't mean that question to be a-holish

[DownInFlames]

I don't think property taxes are nearly the burden that other forms of taxation are. They pay for roads, schools, police, fire, parks, libraries and so much more. It's the one tax I happily pay no matter if I use those services or not.

We have seen example after example of how our taxes are already pretty low in Calgary and what the current council has done to keep them that way. I think we should continue that trend but a complete freeze is an easy promise to make but nearly impossible to keep. When I ask people the same question that La Flames Fan asks I get glib answers like 'public art' and minor line items that don't affect the bottom line enough to make up for a freeze.

I'd also like to ask someone like turek fan, who has admitted to not being in an "average household", how are property taxes burdening you? What would you do with the few hundred extra dollars you'd have in your pocket if property taxes are frozen? Again, let's keep this separate from income tax.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Ryan, your question is not a-holish. I will respond when I get home.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I personally don’t think the average household can sustain the tax bill that keeps raising from every level of government.

This is my fundamental issue. There is wayyyy too much tax in this country.

I always wonder what people use as a reference point when they say taxes are way too high. Outside of about 2006-2015 taxes have not been lower (The period between Harper cutting the GST and Notley raising personal income taxes on higher incomes)

The other issue that faces Calgary is that businesses have subsidized home owners for decades relative to other major cities. Unwinding that challenge will require homeowners rates to go up.

[Amethyst]

I will not vote for someone whose campaign is "to cut taxes." If you want to cut taxes, tell me exactly where and why.

Taxes are not a bad thing. On the city level, it makes way more sense for me to pay taxes and the city to build and service roads than for me to pay to pave a bit of street in front of my house and then hope everyone else along the way does the same.

Sure, it sounds great to say you will cut taxes, but there's not a magical pot of tax money sitting around waiting to give to people. If you're cutting taxes, you're also cutting services. Be up front about which ones you want to cut, so I can decide if it's something I value or not.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

I will not vote for someone whose campaign is "to cut taxes." If you want to cut taxes, tell me exactly where and why.

Taxes are not a bad thing. On the city level, it makes way more sense for me to pay taxes and the city to build and service roads than for me to pay to pave a bit of street in front of my house and then hope everyone else along the way does the same.

Sure, it sounds great to say you will cut taxes, but there's not a magical pot of tax money sitting around waiting to give to people. If you're cutting taxes, you're also cutting services. Be up front about which ones you want to cut, so I can decide if it's something I value or not.

Right. Unlike the provincial or federal governments, the city can't run a deficit so if you don't raise taxes you have to cut something just to make up for inflation. Say you'll your best to limit increases but freezes just aren't sustainable.

[MegaErtz]

Mayor Nenshi was on the Cross Border podcast this morning, and his attitude really surprised me. While he criticized Farkas heavily without naming him, he clearly has no love for Jyoti Gondek either, saying that people are just voting for he because she isn't "the other guy" and most of her voters can't name a single policy initiative of hers.

Also of note, he thinks Gian-Carlo Carra and Diane Colley-Urquhart are in the fight of their lives to get re-elected, and he expects only one of Pootmans or Chabot to win. I'm guessing Pootmans is the one he thinks won't win. He thinks Peter Demong will win easily.

Extremely critical of Magliocca and Chu, going so far as to call Chu a "terrible councillor."

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Mayor Nenshi was on the Cross Border podcast this morning, and his attitude really surprised me. While he criticized Farkas heavily without naming him, he clearly has no love for Jyoti Gondek either, saying that people are just voting for he because she isn't "the other guy" and most of her voters can't name a single policy initiative of hers.

I didn't hear the podcast but I kind of agree. I'm not super excited about voting for Gondek. I haven't agreed with everything she's done on council, but I've always found her reasonable and I think she understands how things work. I think she'd be a good mayor, but I don't get excited about what she's going to do.

I voted for her because in a choice between her and Farkas, she seems reasonable and competent and I can't stand Farkas. Earlier in the race, I was looking at outside candidates, but no one there got my attention either. Well, in a good way anyway...

So it came down to this - if no one really excites me, which of the top candidates do I think will do a decent job? And that, without a doubt, is Gondek.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I personally don’t think the average household can sustain the tax bill that keeps raising from every level of government.

This is my fundamental issue. There is wayyyy too much tax in this country.

Property taxes are based on hosing price. Maybe those people shouldn’t be over extending themselves with houses they can’t afford the taxes to

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

So it came down to this - if no one really excites me, which of the top candidates do I think will do a decent job? And that, without a doubt, is Gondek.

Yup, that's it for me too. Who do I think will do a good job, and actually has the best chance of winning versus Farkas? Gondek.

As I said when campaign season first kicked off, I didn't see a "Nenshi" across all the candidates that could be an out-of-left-field election winner like he was in 2010. Not only were the campaigns of the 'also ran' candidates particularly weak this election, I think the sheer volume of candidates made it especially difficult for anyone who wasn't already established with previous council experience to make waves in the mayoral race. I suspect the results of this election will really come down to Farkas vs Gondek (hopefully with Gondek taking the W), with Davison in a distant third.

[getbak]

This document has a good breakdown of where your city taxes go: https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...-2019-2022.pdf

On page 72, it has a chart showing the distribution of the typical $176.80 monthly tax bill. Why they did it that way rather than a simple percentage, I don't know, but it still gives you an idea of where the money goes.

There are only 4 categories that get more than 10% each. The biggest by-far is the Police, which gets $21.50 from every $100 you pay. Transit is next at $16.06 per $100. Then Fire at $12.52 per $100. Finally, Enabling Services (which is things like insurance, HR, IT, etc. that are required to be able to do all the other stuff) amounts for $12.27 per $100.


Combined, those 4 areas take up $62.35 from every $100 you send to the city. Realistically, if you want to see a significant reduction in your taxes, those are the areas that need to see the cuts.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by getbak

This document has a good breakdown of where your city taxes go: https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...-2019-2022.pdf

On page 72, it has a chart showing the distribution of the typical $176.80 monthly tax bill. Why they did it that way rather than a simple percentage, I don't know, but it still gives you an idea of where the money goes.

There are only 4 categories that get more than 10% each. The biggest by-far is the Police, which gets $21.50 from every $100 you pay. Transit is next at $16.06 per $100. Then Fire at $12.52 per $100. Finally, Enabling Services (which is things like insurance, HR, IT, etc. that are required to be able to do all the other stuff) amounts for $12.27 per $100.


Combined, those 4 areas take up $62.35 from every $100 you send to the city. Realistically, if you want to see a significant reduction in your taxes, those are the areas that need to see the cuts.

The police are such a third rail of municipal politics that I think its very likely there are cuts that could be made there. I don't think lower taxes are realistic, but keeping raises per property to actual inflation (vs self defined municipal inflation) seems reasonable.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by GGG

I always wonder what people use as a reference point when they say taxes are way too high. Outside of about 2006-2015 taxes have not been lower (The period between Harper cutting the GST and Notley raising personal income taxes on higher incomes)

The other issue that faces Calgary is that businesses have subsidized home owners for decades relative to other major cities. Unwinding that challenge will require homeowners rates to go up.

Originally Posted by Amethyst

I will not vote for someone whose campaign is "to cut taxes." If you want to cut taxes, tell me exactly where and why.

Taxes are not a bad thing. On the city level, it makes way more sense for me to pay taxes and the city to build and service roads than for me to pay to pave a bit of street in front of my house and then hope everyone else along the way does the same.

Sure, it sounds great to say you will cut taxes, but there's not a magical pot of tax money sitting around waiting to give to people. If you're cutting taxes, you're also cutting services. Be up front about which ones you want to cut, so I can decide if it's something I value or not.

I am just going to come out and say it.

Are you ok with someone who owns a $500,000 home paying the same absolute value of taxes as someone who owns a $1,500,000 home?

This is what irks me. Sure taxes are not bad. But are you willing to pay the same number as someone who makes more than you?

The person living in a $500,000 home uses the same services and infrastructure as someone living in a $1,500,000 home.

[the_only_turek_fan]

......

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by La Flames Fan

Honest question for you - what are you willing to trade for your tax relief and what is an acceptable tax rate (property, income, etc.)? Is there a country you'd want to mirror?

I'm genuinely curious, I don't mean that question to be a-holish

Are we talking provincial level or municipal?

I think nurses are doctors can take a 3-5% pay cut. My wife is a physician and god bless her she does great work but we will be fine if she took a 10-20k pay cut a year.

Nurse OT abuse is a problem.

I would cut all arts funding. Not sure if this is a provincial or municipal action.

I would institute a 2-3% cut across all departments.

I am not advocating draconian cuts here. I think 2-5% of property tax relief would go along way for people.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I am just going to come out and say it.

Are you ok with someone who owns a $500,000 home paying the same absolute value of taxes as someone who owns a $1,500,000 home?

This is what irks me. Sure taxes are not bad. But are you willing to pay the same number as someone who makes more than you?

The person living in a $500,000 home uses the same services and infrastructure as someone living in a $1,500,000 home.

Well I think we should have a more progressive system of property tax that makes more valuable homes have even higher taxes then just a linear scale.

The reason in general that person living in a 1.5 million dollar home should pay more in taxes is that they are able to and they require the person in the 500k home to exist in order to support the economy that allows them to own a 1.5m home.

Then in a more abstract sense high taxation should lower property values which while not changing affordability would allow more services to be provided for a given cost of house+Maint+utilities+tax. So overall rather than people paying interest to the bank and capital to older generations you would be paying for services.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Are we talking provincial level or municipal?

I think nurses are doctors can take a 3-5% pay cut. My wife is a physician and god bless her she does great work but we will be fine if she took a 10-20k pay cut a year.

Nurse OT abuse is a problem.

I would cut all arts funding. Not sure if this is a provincial or municipal action.

I would institute a 2-3% cut across all departments.

I am not advocating draconian cuts here. I think 2-5% of property tax relief would go along way for people.

Yeah, all those things would make my life worse and the few dollars I save a month in property taxes would do nothing to mitigate that. I won't be voting for a candidate with that plan.