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Old 09-13-2017, 01:29 PM   #21
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Mayor @nenshi expressed puzzlement over Flames ditching arena quest. Says he'll release deets of both sides' proposals in days ahead #yyccc

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As far as @nenshi was concerned, he feels negotiations hadn't reached an impasse and were still ongoing.

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Arena price tag proposed to be about $550 million. Cost break down loosely split a third apiece for city/owners/ticket surcharge #yyccc
See....in my mind thats pretty reasonable. For the CSEC to halt talks over that is the opposite of reasonable.

"You get a new arena for less than $200M" and they stamp their feet, throw a tantrum and take their ball and go home?

Somebody needs a 'time-out' and its not the City.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:35 PM   #22
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In the back of my mind I wonder if CSEC is purposely sabotaging things? Perhaps they want out. I agree with Nenshi, I don't see anything here that would create and impasse. I hope this is not the case.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:37 PM   #23
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According to this information they don't seem that far apart as we were led to believe. There are still hurdles but the same type of hurdles that are par for the course in any arena/stadium negotiation with a city. Problem is that you have Nenshi making disparaging public comments without discussing with the Flames and now the Flames making disparaging public comments without discussing with the city. Sounds to me like both sides are failing miserably at the communications part of this negotiation or one or both parties are lying to us.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:44 PM   #24
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I'm on a real 'billionaires need to be reminded their heads can go on spikes just the same as the rest of us' kick these days, and this news does nothing to change that.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #25
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Anyone else getting the sense this is straight out of Bettman's negotiation playbook. We have seen these exact tactics with the players during two lockouts.

What this thing needs is a second deadline. The "current council" deadline expired this week, much like the start of the season deadline did a few years ago. Flames will come back around Christmas once the dust has settled and communicate that they have reviewed all options and they are going to take one more run at this and provided they can get a deal done by February 2018 with an arena ready by the start of season September 2020. The sides will come together around that deadline and either hammer out a deal, or we repeat the cycle after another window of no negotiation...

The only risk in this negotiation is that there are not the same hard deadlines as during an NHL season.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:47 PM   #26
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As disappointing as this is, if the rumour is true it's actually really encouraging. Given the veiled nonsense and overreaction all around from yesterday you would think they were at some basic level of deadlock.

Work out the logistics on how the city can see a return on their loan and move on. I know that's far more complex than I make it in that sentence, but as I said knowing they were this close is motivating.

I'll be interested to learn more about the details in the coming weeks/months.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:49 PM   #27
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So this is purely for the arena? McMahon will continue to rot and decay and just generally be a ####hole?
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:50 PM   #28
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So this is purely for the arena? McMahon will continue to rot and decay and just generally be a ####hole?
well nobody wants to pay for a new one so yeah
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:51 PM   #29
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Seems to me like they're a few inches apart. Problem is you have two bulls butting heads over a pea. I bet this gets done and the Flames have a new barn in 4 years. I think the city wants to squeeze every last inch of life left in the Dome before they let the Flames have their new arena.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:52 PM   #30
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Shawn Logan‏Verified account @ShawnLogan403

Arena price tag proposed to be about $550 million. Cost break down loosely split a third apiece for city/owners/ticket surcharge #yyccc
This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:53 PM   #31
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So this is purely for the arena? McMahon will continue to rot and decay and just generally be a ####hole?
It seems clear the city views a McMahon redevelopment/fieldhouse proposal as a separate issue from the hockey rink.

Which is fine. They're wildly different projects with different potential public benefits. We're not trying to build a new outdoor stadium to attract more concerts.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:54 PM   #32
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This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
It's not a gift, genius. It's an investment by taxpayers. Geez.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:54 PM   #33
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There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
Investor?
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:55 PM   #34
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This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
A gift? We're not talking about 'Gifts' we're talking about a business. Businesses dont get 'Gifts.'

It isnt a 'Gift' its a low interest loan. You know the crucial thing about loans?

They have to get paid back.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:56 PM   #35
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Investor?
hahaha - well done.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:56 PM   #36
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This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
Are the flames a charity? Why would the city be "gifting" them anything?
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:57 PM   #37
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This would be disingenuous based on the rumors. Nenshi is proposing a whole lot less than 1/3. He's offering one-third, but then he wants it back. There's a American pejorative expression used to describe a person who gives a "gift" and later wants it back.
Interestingly enough....CSEC wants the same thing back from their investment.

The way I look at it...everyone fronts $600M at some ratio. All financiers first recover their initial investment. After the initial investment is recovered, the Flames get all remaining revenue, minus tax (which the city gets). If you cannot $600M over the life of the arena...build a $400M arena.

That is a fair deal between partners. The only items to negotiate are the % risk that each side takes on.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:57 PM   #38
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A gift? We're not talking about 'Gifts' we're talking about a business. Businesses dont get 'Gifts.'

It isnt a 'Gift' its a low interest loan. You know the crucial thing about loans?

They have to get paid back.
Except conceptually, the flames aren't asking for a loan. They're asking for a financial contribution from the public at large in order to finance a piece of infrastructure that has a public benefit component.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:58 PM   #39
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So I'm going to need a refresher on how Nenshi shares blame with King and how "both sides" are at fault for this mess. Seems pretty one sided to me.

Ken King and company better change strategies before City Hall becomes the new Honda Center.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:58 PM   #40
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A gift? We're not talking about 'Gifts' we're talking about a business. Businesses dont get 'Gifts.'

It isnt a 'Gift' its a low interest loan. You know the crucial thing about loans?

They have to get paid back.
So describe it as a loan, with the city picking up the interest.
Accuracy is important
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