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Old 09-12-2017, 01:28 PM   #41
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I'm almost 100% sure there'll be some public money on the table - but not in the same ballpark as the Flames want.
And I think everyone is cool with that. I know I am. But the Devil is in the details.

How much? What do we get out of it?

Their first ask was like a bad Kijiji buyer.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:35 PM   #42
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Why are they renovating for that much money, when they can build a new for that much?
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:35 PM   #43
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If they'd done this 4-5 years ago when cash was flowing through the streets, a favourable Government was in place, Oil prices were high, the CSEC would have had more expendable cash to commit to the project and the City probably would have cut a cheque for the rest without blinking.
If only Ken King and the Flames had started this process ten years ago. If only...

P.S. I like the renderings. I mean, they're not CalgaryNext quality, but still...
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:21 PM   #44
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Why are they renovating for that much money, when they can build a new for that much?
I think they have had issues securing locations they wanted to build
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:22 PM   #45
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Well this is awkward.

The press conference is cancelled as a 5th man came out to accuse the Seattle mayor of sexual abuse. The mayor denies the allegations but has now resigned.

What that means for this project, if anything, is unknown.

Last edited by sureLoss; 09-12-2017 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:53 PM   #46
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Incorrect, the Seahawks have a championship, there has never been a riot in Seattle following a football game, their coach has never waved a white towel in an embarrassing fashion, and they aren't constantly whining about officiating.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:59 PM   #47
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Seattle is three times the size of Calgary (and growing rapidly), and the new arena will likely have two major-league tenants, not one. These facts should suggest to you some reasons why it's easier to justify $600 million in private money for an arena there.

Building an NHL-quality arena with your own money in a city of a million and change is a good way to throw your money away, and significantly more entertaining than flushing it down the toilet. People keep mentioning privately financed arenas in places like New York, Toronto, and now Seattle. Well, boys and girls, we're not in that league, and an arena here won't draw that kind of cashflow. The closest parallel for us is Ottawa, where they built an arena with private money, and it promptly went broke.
The relative metro Seattle area has a population that is right on par with Calgary so I don't get where you are basing your "three times Calgary's Size" argument? Very few people would be driving 75km from distant cities like Tacoma to watch NHL hockey - including that population in your argument is a bit much. Also, the last time I checked, these buildings hold 17-20k people....unless you're talking metropolis vs small town Alberta, Calgary is definitely in the same league as these other cities you've listed as far as potential to draw serious cash flow.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:04 PM   #48
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The relative metro Seattle area has a population that is right on par with Calgary so I don't get where you are basing your "three times Calgary's Size" argument? Very few people would be driving 75km from distant cities like Tacoma to watch NHL hockey - including that population in your argument is a bit much. Also, the last time I checked, these buildings hold 17-20k people....unless you're talking metropolis vs small town Alberta, Calgary is definitely in the same league as these other cities you've listed as far as potential to draw serious cash flow.
What? Metropolitan Seattle is listed as $3.7M on wikipedia. City populations are irrelevant, you have to consider the full metropolitan area. Do you consider Vancouver to be 600,000?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #49
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Incorrect, the Seahawks have a championship, there has never been a riot in Seattle following a football game, their coach has never waved a white towel in an embarrassing fashion, and they aren't constantly whining about officiating.
hahahaha. Pete Caroll has never whined about officiating or embarrassed himself. He has definitely the most punchable coach face in the NFL.

Sorry but they are the pigskin Canucks.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #50
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Privately financed - it begs the question, why can't the Flames do the same? Or at minimum, privately finance the majority of the project?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:37 PM   #51
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What? Metropolitan Seattle is listed as $3.7M on wikipedia. City populations are irrelevant, you have to consider the full metropolitan area. Do you consider Vancouver to be 600,000?
Depends on the definition and ranges used. Some US definitions use massive areas that are not used in Canada.

According to Wikipedia, Seattle Metro Area is 15,000 Km2. It includes places like Tacoma and Everett, both about an hour from downtown Seattle.

Calgary's metro area is listed at 5,000 km2. almost a third less in size.

As Hot_Flatus mentioned, it's not necessarily and apples to apples comparison.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:37 PM   #52
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hahahaha. Pete Caroll has never whined about officiating or embarrassed himself. He has definitely the most punchable coach face in the NFL.

Sorry but they are the pigskin Canucks.
Spoiler!
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:38 PM   #53
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What? Metropolitan Seattle is listed as $3.7M on wikipedia. City populations are irrelevant, you have to consider the full metropolitan area. Do you consider Vancouver to be 600,000?
There is no way that more than a minuscule amount of people in the outer metro areas of either of these cities are going to be driving north of 75km to attend games in traffic that makes the deerfoot look like childs play.

This is why it makes perfect sense to mention that the metro pop of Seattle is meaningless to hold against Calgary in some ill fated attempt to pump up Flames ownership in this thread.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:41 PM   #54
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The relative metro Seattle area has a population that is right on par with Calgary so I don't get where you are basing your "three times Calgary's Size" argument? Very few people would be driving 75km from distant cities like Tacoma to watch NHL hockey - including that population in your argument is a bit much. Also, the last time I checked, these buildings hold 17-20k people....unless you're talking metropolis vs small town Alberta, Calgary is definitely in the same league as these other cities you've listed as far as potential to draw serious cash flow.
What are you talking about? Tacoma isn't that distant. Its 41 miles? Everett is only 46 miles. For someone in a big American city, that drive is nothing. Seriously, I know people who drive up to 70 miles - one way - for their commute. For Seattle that is out to Olympia or Mt. Vernon. Belligham is like driving from Red Deer. Are you suggesting that people from High River, or Didsbury, or Canmore, or Carseland don't drive into Calgary for games?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:48 PM   #55
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What are you talking about? Tacoma isn't that distant. Its 41 miles? Everett is only 46 miles. For someone in a big American city, that drive is nothing. Seriously, I know people who drive up to 70 miles - one way - for their commute. For Seattle that is out to Olympia or Mt. Vernon. Belligham is like driving from Red Deer. Are you suggesting that people from High River, or Didsbury, or Canmore, or Carseland don't drive into Calgary for games?
Yes, I am suggesting that and I'm talking about being realistic.....41 miles is 65km....one way. Factor in traffic that is ten times worse than anything you'd see here in Calgary and you've easily got an hour in a car after a full days work that may have already called for a significant commute of its own.

Calgary or Seattle aside, there is absolutely no way that there are more than a minute percentage of fans that are going to regularly do this to attend games when they have normal life to factor into the equation. Toss our extreme weather into the equation and it would be just as bad for someone coming in from High River or Strathmore during the hockey season.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:52 PM   #56
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Spoiler!
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:55 PM   #57
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Yes, I am suggesting that and I'm talking about being realistic.....41 miles is 65km....one way. Factor in traffic that is ten times worse than anything you'd see here in Calgary and you've easily got an hour in a car after a full days work that may have already called for a significant commute of its own.

Calgary or Seattle aside, there is absolutely no way that there are more than a minute percentage of fans that are going to regularly do this to attend games when they have normal life to factor into the equation. Toss our extreme weather into the equation and it would be just as bad for someone coming in from High River or Strathmore during the hockey season.
Exactly what percentage of people do you think need to do this, in order for $3.7M people to fill a 20,000 seat arena?
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:01 PM   #58
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"The full metro area of a city doesn't count because it harms my argument" is a new one to me too.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:15 PM   #59
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Well this is awkward.

The press conference is cancelled as a 5th man came out to accuse the Seattle mayor of sexual abuse. The mayor denies the allegations but has now resigned.

What that means for this project, if anything, is unknown.
Aaand the Mayor has resigned. Wow!!!
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:17 PM   #60
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Yes, I am suggesting that and I'm talking about being realistic.....41 miles is 65km....one way. Factor in traffic that is ten times worse than anything you'd see here in Calgary and you've easily got an hour in a car after a full days work that may have already called for a significant commute of its own.

Calgary or Seattle aside, there is absolutely no way that there are more than a minute percentage of fans that are going to regularly do this to attend games when they have normal life to factor into the equation. Toss our extreme weather into the equation and it would be just as bad for someone coming in from High River or Strathmore during the hockey season.
Yeah, I don't think you understand what its like to live in a big city, nor are being realistic. American cities are about urban sprawl. For example, Its over 35 miles to the arena from where I work, and another 50 miles to my house. That's right, I drive 35 miles after work to catch a hockey game, then 80+ miles to get home. Now that is because the arena is in a crappy location, and I live on the opposite end of town, but I still do that to go to a game. And that isn't that strange. That's why a central arena is so crucial in a big city. You need a good location to reduce driving and central locations do that. Bottom line, 50 miles is not a stretch for someone living in an American city, especially the big ones.
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