2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I hate to say it but that's probably what he's worth. Be upset that this is where we're at, not that there are people pointing it out.

except that he's not

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Alberta is cursed, neither team can do anything right. Maybe this is karma for both teams being dominant in the 80’s?

Yes, karma for our one Stanley Cup win.

[Roof-Daddy]

Another thing about the oilers is, had they not won the McDavid lottery because of the draft rule changes made due to the oilers continual suckage, they would still be in a playoff drought and one of the worst teams in the league drafting top 10 or even top 5 every year.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Since 2015 the Flames have actually been in pretty good at identifying talent in the draft.

Issue is that the Elliott, Smith, and Hamonic trades ate into all of our picks in the top 2 rounds.

It's why I'd be okay with shedding some pieces for picks this year, we need to give our scouts the ammo to actually make some shrewd picks.

The best mid round picks each team has made in the last 6 years have also been traded away (marino, fox).

The Flames actually got something for their player, but still.

The relative comparisons are uncanny.

[agulati]

Yikes on Risto. Glad that didn't go further, and hopefully isn't re-explored.

[Enoch Root]

people see what they want to see

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They may have some similarities but you are ignoring a few things.

a. The Oilers have had 4 first overalls, plus a 3rd and a 4th. Calgary has had only 3 top 10 picks, none higher than 4th. Two of those have worked out pretty well.

b. Tkachuk is better than Puljujarvi and was picked after him whereas Draisatl is better than Bennett but was picked before him, so I'm not sure what the argument is there.

c. The Oil have made the POs 2 of 6 years. The Flames did it 4 of 6.

d. The Flames have been below .500 once in 6 years. The Oilers have been below 4 times.

Oilers made playoffs once in the last six years....well, once in the last 14 years actually.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

except that he's not

Agree to disagree then. But I think if you're expecting something substantially more you're going to end up being really disappointed.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Another thing about the oilers is, had they not won the McDavid lottery because of the draft rule changes made due to the oilers continual suckage, they would still be in a playoff drought and one of the worst teams in the league drafting top 10 or even top 5 every year.

And if the Canucks hadn't gifted Tkachuk to the Flames the Flames would be a lottery team.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

I know it's difficult to accept considering the oilers suck so ####ing badly, but uh, the flames aren't exactly building a dynasty here.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

And if the Canucks hadn't gifted Tkachuk to the Flames the Flames would be a lottery team.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

I know it's difficult to accept considering the oilers suck so ####ing badly, but uh, the flames aren't exactly building a dynasty here.

They would not be a lottery team. Even if they had taken Juolevi they wouldn't be a lottery team, but that's assuming they take Juolevi and not Keller or somebody else.

Hey, the Flames are not doing anything special, no argument there. But the oilers are 1000 x worse.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Dragomir

Alberta is cursed, neither team can do anything right. Maybe this is karma for both teams being dominant in the 80’s?

I hope the Oilers suck forever.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

It's 2020, she can be whatever she decides to be!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The best mid round picks each team has made in the last 6 years have also been traded away (marino, fox).

The Flames actually got something for their player, but still.

The relative comparisons are uncanny.

A bit different there too.

Flames knew Fox was good, but he wouldn't sign here (or Carolina where he was traded) can't do much about that. Flames used him in a package to add some core pieces at least.

Edmonton didn't think Marino was any good, and just traded him away for nothing (conditional 6th round pick). So a thats easily more "No Good".

Flames also have Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington as non- first rounders that have had NHL time.

Oilers have Jones, and Bear, and Benson has guys that have played NHL time as non 1st rounders since 2015.

I'd take our non-first round draft picks over than time period way before I'd take the Oilers non-first rounders.

[Enoch Root]

I know everyone is angry at the team right now, and rightly so, and yes, there are serious problems, but trying to compare us to the Oilers is pretty ridiculous.

The Flames have underachieved, and been a bottom-half franchise for some time.

The Oilers have been HISTORICALLY bad. As in, you have to look at other sports to try and find comparisons bad. And you still can't.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I know everyone is angry at the team right now, and rightly so, and yes, there are serious problems, but trying to compare us to the Oilers is pretty ridiculous.

The Flames have underachieved, and been a bottom-half franchise for some time.

The Oilers have been HISTORICALLY bad. As in, you have to look at other sports to try and find comparisons bad. And you still can't.

Yah, lets get real here. Replace Monahan with McDavid, and tell me the Flames would be as good as the Oilers right now? Without McDavid, Oilers are fighting Detroit for being the worst team in the league.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

A bit different there too.

Flames knew Fox was good, but he wouldn't sign here (or Carolina where he was traded) can't do much about that. Flames used him in a package to add some core pieces at least.

Edmonton didn't think Marino was any good, and just traded him away for nothing (conditional 6th round pick). So a thats easily more "No Good".

Flames also have Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington as non- first rounders that have had NHL time.

Oilers have Jones, and Bear, and Benson has guys that have played NHL time as non 1st rounders since 2015.

I'd take our non-first round draft picks over than time period way before I'd take the Oilers non-first rounders.

Yeah but does that matter when their first round picks blow Calgary's out of the water and neither team accomplishes much of anything regardless?

That's what I'm saying. For all the credit Calgary gets for their depth picks turning out it doesn't translate to anything because they don't make or land with their high picks.

For all the consternation about the oilers drafting top 5, they have two of the best forwards in the whole NHL to show for it.

Maybe that's a strategy to Flames should consider adding to their current work at drafting well in later rounds.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I know everyone is angry at the team right now, and rightly so, and yes, there are serious problems, but trying to compare us to the Oilers is pretty ridiculous.

The Flames have underachieved, and been a bottom-half franchise for some time.

The Oilers have been HISTORICALLY bad. As in, you have to look at other sports to try and find comparisons bad. And you still can't.

How many other teams have either missed the playoffs or been punted in the first round twenty-eight times in the last thirty years?

That's more than just "bottom half franchise" bad. I'd be shocked if there are many pro sports teams anywhere that could match that stretch.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Yah, lets get real here. Replace Monahan with McDavid, and tell me the Flames would be as good as the Oilers right now? Without McDavid, Oilers are fighting Detroit for being the worst team in the league.

Replace Monahan with McDavid, and tell me we haven't already swept the Stars.

I'm all for acquiring top-flight talent through the draft. All this stuff about it being embarrassing or establishing a losing culture, it's all just reticence to going through true growing pains. The Blackhawks, Penguins, Capitals, Avs all had some brutal years when they acquired guys like Toews, Kane, Crosby, MAF, Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom, MacKinnon, Makar. It is what it is.

Edmonton has poor management structure and drafting, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the one piece we can never acquire, while we have the types of pieces they could eventually acquire.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Replace Monahan with McDavid, and tell me we haven't already swept the Stars.

I'm all for acquiring top-flight talent through the draft. All this stuff about it being embarrassing or establishing a losing culture, it's all just reticence to going through true growing pains. The Blackhawks, Penguins, Capitals, Avs all had some brutal years when they acquired guys like Toews, Kane, Crosby, MAF, Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom, MacKinnon, Makar. It is what it is.

Edmonton has poor management structure and drafting, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the one piece we can never acquire, while we have the types of pieces they could eventually acquire.

But that's not a realistic strategy. How would the Flames even plan to be able to draft a generational player? McDavid totally fell into their lap, and they're still a worse team than Calgary right now. All I'm saying is, Flames are still a better built team than the Oilers. We just don't have that one piece that's the hardest to acquire.

I'm not saying there needs to be changes if the Flames bow out in the first round again. All I'm saying is, people comparing our team to the Oilers are just way out to lunch.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah I was thinking about those two rumored deals, and how it would leave Hanifin as the odd man out on D probably. Hanifin for Domi.

Hall - Couturier - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Domi - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - XXXX

Giordano - Andersson
Ghost - Ristolainen
Valimaki - XXXX

Retooled for sure.

Is it any better? Not so sure.

You are not getting Couturier for Gaudreau unless you are adding Tkachuk.

Some Philly fans might want the hometown boy but do you really think Johnny is a Flyer type? Let alone trading Flyer types like Konecny or Couturier for him? Gaudreau is also not an AV type of player.

I’d be shocked if the Flyers were even interested in Gaudreau let alone paying top dollar for him.