Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[Matata]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Yeah most people support policies that #### over other people because of classism, not racism.

Of course, classism and racism are often tied together, but motivation is likely more selfish than hateful. People are just self-absorbed dicks.

The rich are selling the idea that the class war is actually a race war and are mostly succeeding.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Don’t kid yourself, they’re giving you the lower fine in the hopes that you won’t fight the charge. It’s something I’ve always had an issue with the police doing, when they pull someone over for doing 20 over the limit they should give them the fine for that or if it’s not a big enough deal to warrant doing so then they shouldn’t even be stopping you at all. We should never condone the police falsifying facts.

Ugh I swore myself I wouldn't dive into this thread again but here we are.

I give breaks/discretion for a multitude of reasons...the least of which is that people aren't going to fight it. I honestly could not care less what happens after the ticket is issued. There's no grand conspiracy to get people to pay the tickets instead of fighting them. Heaven forbid the police want you to receive less demerits and pay less money if you feel you're guilty. Furthermore, there's no falsifying facts. Everything is documented on the back of the ticket which is viewable through disclosure including reasons why discretions or breaks were given.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Ugh I swore myself I wouldn't dive into this thread again but here we are.

I give breaks/discretion for a multitude of reasons...the least of which is that people aren't going to fight it. I honestly could not care less what happens after the ticket is issued. There's no grand conspiracy to get people to pay the tickets instead of fighting them. Heaven forbid the police want you to receive less demerits and pay less money if you feel you're guilty. Furthermore, there's no falsifying facts. Everything is documented on the back of the ticket which is viewable through disclosure including reasons why discretions or breaks were given.

Assuming you're a police officer based on this post, I do have a completely honest question: When you ask "do you know why you were pulled over?" does it make any difference what the response is (outside of someone being a dick or anything, obviously). Like I've said I don't know when I don't know, and guessed when I have a suspicion as to why, but do you really care either way, or is it just to whether you have to explain to someone why they're being pulled over or not?

I just thought of it when people were discussing what you should say.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Assuming you're a police officer based on this post, I do have a completely honest question: When you ask "do you know why you were pulled over?" does it make any difference what the response is (outside of someone being a dick or anything, obviously). Like I've said I don't know when I don't know, and guessed when I have a suspicion as to why, but do you really care either way, or is it just to whether you have to explain to someone why they're being pulled over or not?

I just thought of it when people were discussing what you should say.

Personally, I’ve never asked why someone thought they were stopped. I’ve always explained why, “hello, the reason you’re being stopped is....” and go from there. I’ve never really understood the guessing game approach but that’s just me.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Assuming you're a police officer based on this post, I do have a completely honest question: When you ask "do you know why you were pulled over?" does it make any difference what the response is (outside of someone being a dick or anything, obviously). Like I've said I don't know when I don't know, and guessed when I have a suspicion as to why, but do you really care either way, or is it just to whether you have to explain to someone why they're being pulled over or not?

I just thought of it when people were discussing what you should say.

From my understanding it's simply interaction to form a quick evaluation of the type of person they are dealing with.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Assuming you're a police officer based on this post, I do have a completely honest question: When you ask "do you know why you were pulled over?" does it make any difference what the response is (outside of someone being a dick or anything, obviously). Like I've said I don't know when I don't know, and guessed when I have a suspicion as to why, but do you really care either way, or is it just to whether you have to explain to someone why they're being pulled over or not?

I just thought of it when people were discussing what you should say.

I never use it but EE hit the nail on the head, usually a good litmus test on what people are going to be like.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Ugh I swore myself I wouldn't dive into this thread again but here we are.

I give breaks/discretion for a multitude of reasons...the least of which is that people aren't going to fight it. I honestly could not care less what happens after the ticket is issued. There's no grand conspiracy to get people to pay the tickets instead of fighting them. Heaven forbid the police want you to receive less demerits and pay less money if you feel you're guilty. Furthermore, there's no falsifying facts. Everything is documented on the back of the ticket which is viewable through disclosure including reasons why discretions or breaks were given.

I get that you think this sounds like a nice thing to do, but IMO it’s really a very slippery slope and never understood the logic or why it’s considered acceptable. I say this as someone who drives a lot for work and is no stranger to receiving speeding tickets. I’m not saying police shouldn’t use their discretion in some situations and circumstances, but traffic violations are typically pretty black and white so the law shouldn’t be applied differently depending on what cop you’re dealing with and what kind of mood they are in that day.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I get that you think this sounds like a nice thing to do, but IMO it’s really a very slippery slope and never understood the logic or why it’s considered acceptable. I say this as someone who drives a lot for work and is no stranger to receiving speeding tickets. I’m not saying police shouldn’t use their discretion in some situations and circumstances, but traffic violations are typically pretty black and white so the law shouldn’t be applied differently depending on what cop you’re dealing with and what kind of mood they are in that day.

I mean if you want traffic laws to be black and white, enjoy getting a dozen tickets every time you're pulled over. I can guarantee between Vehicle Equipment Regs/Municipal Bylaws/TSA that every time you're pulled over, there's a multitude of things that could be enforced and ticketed.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), policing still involves actual humans making decisions who have varying thresholds for what they will enforce or not enforce in any given time, especially when it comes to traffic. If I pulled everyone over for every traffic offence I witnessed, I wouldn't make it five blocks away from my office all shift.

I'm not sure the majority of public would be looking at a binary "you broke this traffic rule and now you're getting a ticket with no thought or context" concept. And furthermore, just cause you received a break, you can still fight the ticket and get disclosure (notes, body worn, in car, etc).

A great example of this is pulling some over for no sticker/unregistered plates. Now they produce an expired insurance card or can't find it on their phone. Is this worthy of $500 in tickets plus towing it because they were a week late in registering their plate? I sure don't think that's reasonable and would never write both.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by jar_e

I mean if you want traffic laws to be black and white, enjoy getting a dozen tickets every time you're pulled over. I can guarantee between Vehicle Equipment Regs/Municipal Bylaws/TSA that every time you're pulled over, there's a multitude of things that could be enforced and ticketed.

You certainly could not guarantee that and I think you probably know that.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), policing still involves actual humans making decisions who have varying thresholds for what they will enforce or not enforce in any given time, especially when it comes to traffic. If I pulled everyone over for every traffic offence I witnessed, I wouldn't make it five blocks away from my office all shift.

Do you think if the police committed to stopping everyone who speeds that we would see more or less people speeding? If your answer is less, then that should tell you there’s a problem with discretion.

I'm not sure the majority of public would be looking at a binary "you broke this traffic rule and now you're getting a ticket with no thought or context" concept. And furthermore, just cause you received a break, you can still fight the ticket and get disclosure (notes, body worn, in car, etc).

Context? The law is if you’re going X over the speed limit you get a ticket with a fixed fine. A person fighting a ticket isn’t going to be able to get the disclosures for all the cases where someone else got a better deal than they did for the exact same offence.

A great example of this is pulling some over for no sticker/unregistered plates. Now they produce an expired insurance card or can't find it on their phone. Is this worthy of $500 in tickets plus towing it because they were a week late in registering their plate? I sure don't think that's reasonable and would never write both.

But the problem is another officer might not be as lenient. So why does one person deserve a warning and the other the fines/towing when they both did the same thing?

If the laws are unfair then we should change the laws and/or penalties, not leave it up to police officers to arbitrarily determine the outcome.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

If the laws are unfair then we should change the laws and/or penalties [...]

Agreed, but what should officers do in the absence of such change?

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by jar_e

I mean if you want traffic laws to be black and white, enjoy getting a dozen tickets every time you're pulled over. I can guarantee between Vehicle Equipment Regs/Municipal Bylaws/TSA that every time you're pulled over, there's a multitude of things that could be enforced and ticketed.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), policing still involves actual humans making decisions who have varying thresholds for what they will enforce or not enforce in any given time, especially when it comes to traffic. If I pulled everyone over for every traffic offence I witnessed, I wouldn't make it five blocks away from my office all shift.

I'm not sure the majority of public would be looking at a binary "you broke this traffic rule and now you're getting a ticket with no thought or context" concept. And furthermore, just cause you received a break, you can still fight the ticket and get disclosure (notes, body worn, in car, etc).

A great example of this is pulling some over for no sticker/unregistered plates. Now they produce an expired insurance card or can't find it on their phone. Is this worthy of $500 in tickets plus towing it because they were a week late in registering their plate? I sure don't think that's reasonable and would never write both.

Or they pull out 15 expired insurance documents each one representing an offense.

Seems to me police can't win. Give people are break and they complain. Give them the full amount or multiple tickets, they complain.

[81MC]

...jar_e, please keep it up. Don’t let iggys take change your stance on reasonable and rationale enforcement.

Also I’m really glad we don’t have police dedicated to fining every possible motor vehicle infraction. What a stupid thought.

[PepsiFree]

I dunno I for one appreciated when I didn't get a ticket for having my expired insurance paper in my wallet vs. my current one.

[Scornfire]

just gunna take a second to appreciate the Cop with a donut avatar, bravo sir

[jar_e]

I mean if you're pushing for every traffic law to be enforced with no discretion, I just don't think that's a reasonable or commonly agreed upon sentiment. There's literally tickets for anything. Our Spec Pens are 50-60 pages long and that's just the provincial one. I don't think you want every cop enforcing every traffic law that's broken.

You do realize that being pulled over is a form of enforcement already right? The physical act of being pulled over is a deterrent. Not everything that happens needs to result in tickets.

So the argument is that a cop wrote you a lesser fine and now fighting it, you want to see if you could have gotten a better deal with another cop? I have no idea what other cops give as breaks. Sometimes people who get pulled over for speeding don't get tickets at all. Does that mean I shouldn't give tickets to speeders at all?

Cops have a wide range of options of enforcement at every call. There are infinite amount of variables from each call. Whether its traffic, criminal or otherwise.

I don't charge someone who stole $8.20 worth of food to feed themselves from Safeway cause how is that in the public interest? Sure some cops will go 100%, some will go 0%, but I think arguing about getting a break is counter productive.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by SebC

Agreed, but what should officers do in the absence of such change?

Their job, uphold the law. How are we supposed to know which laws are fair and which aren’t if they aren’t being enforced properly?

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Or they pull out 15 expired insurance documents each one representing an offense.

Seems to me police can't win. Give people are break and they complain. Give them the full amount or multiple tickets, they complain.

People complain about everything, but that doesn’t mean their complaints are always valid.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I'm with iggy on this one. What would the discretion be based on? There aren't many infractions where there is a legit excuse. Speeding while driving a pregnant woman to the hospital, sure. Forgot to put the new sticker on the licence? It is because you are dumb and forgot (I have done it). Being dumb is pretty much the only reason, so either all should get off or no one.

Otherwise, the discretion would be based on the officers mood, or dare I say it, how attractive the driver is?

[undercoverbrother]

So to be clear we are complaining that officers aren't automatons ??

[you&me]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

so to be clear, iggy is being obtuse again, and is complaining that officers aren't automatons ??

fyp.

[PepsiFree]

Could we possibly avoid using the very real problem of racism and police brutality to somehow paint a police officer forgiving someone for stealing $10 in food or letting someone go for having the wrong insurance slip as a bad thing?

I have a problem with the system as much as anyone and can't stand a lot of what we hear about, but this is how you turn good police officers against people. We should celebrate the officers who use common sense and discretion for the sake of good. We want more of those people.