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Old 08-19-2018, 02:06 PM   #41
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We're not talking about taking contact out because it causes physical pain in the moment, we're talking about it because the accumulation of a career of head trauma breaks people's brains irreparably forever, fundamentally changing changing personalities and lives of families. We're not talking about losing your full range of motion on the driving range, we're talking about losing your ability to participate in society, or be a father. There are orders of magnitude different propositions, and fans are lining up to say "but I'm not entertained!!"
I agree with you that head trauma can be managed which is a really good thing and it doesn't change the game too drastically either. Changing the method and delivery of contact is even a good thing.

However, your example of being a father or participating in society goes quite overboard. By your logic, we might as well eliminate race car driving, rugby, Aussie rules football and it goes on and on. Sport is sport. Sure it can evolve and it's a good thing, but I don't think it's a good idea to eliminate contact in one fell swoop.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #42
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I've always been of the mindset that professional athletes have always known what they signed up for when they got to the pros. And even with the knowledge gained the past decade regarding CTE parents still put their kids through hockey or football knowing full well there's a potential negative outcome.
That's asking someone to use logical information to make an emotional decision, which is an extremely hard thing for most people to do. These athletes have grown up with this dream, their heroes are NHL players, now they have the chance to play? No amount of factual information is going to overcome that desire to have your dreams come true. At the age they are starting out, they don't believe anything will happen to them. Then they get used to the lifestyle and money and it's hard to walk away, especially since they may not have other marketable skills is hockey was their main focus during school.

I don't think it's right to say, oh well, you knew what you were getting into. Too bad.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:33 PM   #43
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I agree with you that head trauma can be managed which is a really good thing and it doesn't change the game too drastically either. Changing the method and delivery of contact is even a good thing.

However, your example of being a father or participating in society goes quite overboard. By your logic, we might as well eliminate race car driving, rugby, Aussie rules football and it goes on and on. Sport is sport. Sure it can evolve and it's a good thing, but I don't think it's a good idea to eliminate contact in one fell swoop.
All the fans of all those sports are literally having this *exact same* conversation.

And each one of them might come with a different conclusion, and make different rule change, and one of them may turn out to be "the right decision". And if those players want to continue on those leagues given *full* understanding of the risks, it's a free world. But in the mean time if we fans tell players it's not entrainment unless they get brain damage, that's not a good look on us.

Maybe the kind CTE that the worst case players get isn't the same as what the average player leaves the game with, but I'm not super discriminating when it comes to Swiss cheese of the brain.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:53 PM   #44
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Football can’t be saved. More and more evidence shows that the cumulative damage from small traumas rather than just small hits. So are you willing to completely give up football?

With hockey I think you could have hitting and still limit the risk of head trauma. Make any head contact incidental or not a penalty, strengthen boarding and charging penalties and enforcement.

Unlike football a body check doesn’t inherently involve head trauma. And if it’s found that rapid deceleration without contact cause CTE than with or without checking Hockey will need to be eliminated.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:00 PM   #45
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If the game is too fast cutting the playing roster to 9 forwards and 5 D is a better solution than removing body checking IMO.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:08 PM   #46
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Not to sound cold, but maybe they should get rid of players that have concussion histories and players that constantly put themselves in precarious positions. I'm not saying blame the victim, but it is another part of the workplace safety issue (which this essentially is).
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:07 PM   #47
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I'm a hockey fan no matter what. How can you rationalize asking another man to get brain damage for your entrainment?

Broken bones heal. Torn ligaments can be reattached. How do you give a man his mind back?
that is why football is a much better game to watch than the NHL. I'm down to only watching the Flames with the NHL. Barely any playoffs and definitely no regular season games involving any other teams.

Who on earth would want to pay to watch a NHL all star game every night?
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:35 PM   #48
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I would like to see guys who deliver predatory head shots get 25 or more games.

Perhaps, they should be sidelined as long as the other player is injured for. With no appeal.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:29 PM   #49
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I knew once they start cracking down on fights, people would start talking about getting rid of hitting. In 30 years wouldn't be surprised if the NHL become a faster version of women's hockey. The NHL game is becoming more and more boring with the lack of intensity and physicality.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:33 PM   #50
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Far from the truth, and even further if you consider the trap era.

What games on international ice are you presenting as boring compared to a rough equivalent played on NHL ice?

All of them.


Every game played on the large ice surface in the entire history of the sport would have been better on NHL sized ice.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:42 PM   #51
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Far from the truth, and even further if you consider the trap era.

What games on international ice are you presenting as boring compared to a rough equivalent played on NHL ice?
Other than the Olympics (and even that is debatable)....name me exciting hockey when the ice surface is larger?

It truly does not exist.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:42 PM   #52
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Contact is fundamental to hockey. Without hitting, we might as well just join the rest of the world in following soccer.
But without headers right? Because repetitive headers are evil now too.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:48 PM   #53
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All of them.


Every game played on the large ice surface in the entire history of the sport would have been better on NHL sized ice.
I agree with you.

On international ice, you see a lot more of players holding the puck and being unchallenged because the defending player would rather not challenge for the puck since getting back into position would be more difficult.

You also see more missed passes and icing. It seems slower and boring to me. On smaller ice, there is no where to just chill for the puck carrier.

I think Finland uses an ice-surface that is somewhere in between. That might be a good compromise.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:11 PM   #54
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The NHL on international ice wold be terrible, frankly there aren't enough players top to bottom that could play it.


Watching the various league games that aren't all star tournaments are fairly boring and the trap is in effect.


There is going to have to be a compromise in hockey, they have to remove predatory hits, head shots and hits from behind. But removing hockey contact? I think that's going to far.


I find the all star style hockey boring, I loath time and space games like Basket ball. I probably wouldn't be interesting in flag hockey.


But then again, I'm on the front lines of the threat of the end of football, so what do I know?
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:45 PM   #55
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I would love to see the results of an anonymous poll of NHL players on the matter, as conducted by the NHLPA. It's one thing for us to sit here and conjecture about what is good for the players, but none of us actually play at that level. I imagine that the majority of players would want to see increased protection from head contact, but I would doubt that the majority of players would want to see hitting removed from the game. Seems odd to me that we don't see many players leave hockey at it's highest level due to the potential of injury. I know, the payday makes people take risks.

When I was playing University sanctioned rugby, there was a guy in that league one year that was paralyzed as a result of a scrum that collapsed. Freak accident, nothing intentional or dirty. I played the same position on my team, and there was no financial incentive for me to stay playing (pay or scholarahip ect). The risks were super appearent because of the incident, but there wasn't a single person that I am aware of that quit because of the accident. For sure not on my team. As atheletes, your aware that things can happen, often even see it happen, but even without any financial compensation, you play because you love the sport and the competition.

Eric Lindros is hardly the poster child for reform. Yep, he had a bunch of concussions. Caused a few as well I will bet. But if I was the group trying to get things changed for the better, I would be telling EL to return to obscurity and quit being a hipocrite.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:52 PM   #56
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How is he a hypocrite?
He, like all of us, had no idea what damage those hits were doing when he played
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:52 PM   #57
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Eric Lindros is hardly the poster child for reform. Yep, he had a bunch of concussions. Caused a few as well I will bet. But if I was the group trying to get things changed for the better, I would be telling EL to return to obscurity and quit being a hipocrite.

Lindros is almost the perfect guy for this. Someone who was known for being a physical beast, but is now speaking out trying to reduce concussions because we've learned new things about brain trauma since he played. It means a lot more coming from him than it would from someone who never threw a hit in their career, IMO.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:59 PM   #58
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How is he a hypocrite?
He, like all of us, had no idea what damage those hits were doing when he played
I used to be a big Stevens fan, and I remember loving that hit he threw on Lindros.

After battling post concussion syndrome myself for just over 2 years, it makes me queasy when I see a player get hit in the head. I still don’t want hitting removed, but something needs to be done.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:03 PM   #59
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I think removing body contact is far too extreme without trying other things first (cause let's be honest, the NHL hasn't really tried much of anything yet). For one, they actually need to start handing out significant suspensions for headshots. And I think they need to remove the "intent" part of the rule entirely. Every single headshot gets a suspension, and there needs to be a minimum number of games. No more one game slap on the wrist types.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:03 PM   #60
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I also do not really care what the current players think
Athletes are amongst the worst to have a view of their own safety
I listen to what guys like Nick Boyton have to say
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