Ethiopian Max 8 crashes, Canadians on board

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Except for the ones who didn't: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ed-safety-flaw

I read the document quoted in that article. Again, I'm not a 737 pilot, but the issues reported by those pilots do not sound like they are MCAS related. One was an autothrottle issue (completely unrelated system), and a couple more were autopilot deviations, but MCAS is not triggered when the AP is engaged, at least according to this article:

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...em-mcas-jt610/
(Posted in this thread several times now, I posted it early on...describes how MCAS works and how it's easily overridden)

[Acey]

WestJet is holding off a bit in terms of "officially" cancelling, but AC just outright cancelled their MAX ops in Calgary for today and will rebook, I expect a crew is being scrambled for an extra section YVR leg on a 777 or 787. Today is not a heavy travel day. Scrubbed departures are AC140 to YYZ, AC211 to YVR, AC221 to YVR, AC1048 to PSP, AC322 to YUL.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by stazzy33

https://flightaware.com/live/findfli...stination=KPHX

Gives you an idea of which planes fly for each operator. Looks like WestJet had a MAX scheduled for tomorrow.

Thanks,

we dont leave until next Friday, it was more curiosity than fear of being on a Max 8

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Thanks,

we dont leave until next Friday, it was more curiosity than fear of being on a Max 8

The aircraft types are usually decided well in advance, but can change for a variety of reasons, even on the day of departure.

If there's a mechanical issue or a weather delay that prevents an aircraft from being somewhere at a specific time, the aircraft assignment can change last minute. I had a YYZ-YYC flight on a 737-800 that had to be downgraded to a -700 last minute (weather delay, so the assigned -800 wasn't going to be in Toronto and nothing else available), so some people were bumped.

Regardless, you won't be on a Max now that they've been grounded, heh. But either FlightRadar24, FlightAware or even WestJet's website can tell you what aircraft type is assigned.

[Red]

The US grounded them now. They had no choice really.

[FlameOn]

Trump apparently forced the FAA to keep the Max flying far longer than everyone else because of a personal call from Boeing's CEO.

With more countries grounding Boeing jets and with lawmakers, aviation workers, and consumers calling on the United States to do the same, the head of the aerospace giant on Tuesday made a personal appeal to President Trump.

Boeing’s chief executive, Dennis A. Muilenburg, called from Chicago and expressed to Mr. Trump his confidence in the safety of the 737 Max 8 jets, according to two people briefed on the conversation. Two of the planes flown by overseas carriers have crashed in recent months in similar accidents.

Boeing’s relationship with Mr. Trump has not always been smooth, however. Shortly after becoming president-elect, Mr. Trump assailed Boeing for the estimated cost of its program to build new Air Force One planes, which provide mobile command centers for the president . . . A couple of weeks later, Mr. Muilenburg visited Mr. Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Fla., to try to smooth things over . . . Weeks after the conversation, Boeing donated $1 million to Mr. Trump’s inaugural committee.

For decades, the F.A.A. has used a network of outside experts, known as F.A.A. designees, to certify that aircraft meet safety standards. In 2005, the regulator shifted its approach for how it delegated authority outside the agency, creating a new program through which aircraft manufacturers like Boeing could choose their own employees to be the designees and help certify their planes. The program is intended to help the F.A.A. stretch its limited resources, while also benefiting plane makers who are eager to avoid delays in the certification process.

The regulator maintains offices inside Boeing’s factories, including those in Renton, Wash., and in Charleston, S.C. . . . The F.A.A.’s top safety official, Ali Bahrami, has worked closely with Boeing during his career, directing the agency’s certification of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and the 747-8 passenger and freighter models.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...rom-boeing-ceo

[Firebot]

Lion Air Flight



Ethiopian Airlines Flight



Almost identical

[KelVarnsen]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1105899617110114310

[Acey]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

Looks like WS2152 is en route to PVR, there is going to be a whole bunch of stressed people in Puerto Vallarta who are expecting to get on the return leg of that flight.

What's funny is that 2152 isn't even a MAX, just a regular 800... so it will return as scheduled, presumably. FlightAware is a joke and everyone should delete it from their favourites bar immediately.

[greyshep]

So maybe an ignorant question, but how does a situation like this relate to the potential for lawsuits in the deaths of those involved in the 2 crashes so far?

Am I to assume that Boeing has been striving to avoid having these planes grounded to avoid litigation? Is this even a thing? Do we sign some waiver against filing suit for negligence in aircraft design/safety when we buy our tickets?

The cynic in me wonders if they were trying their best to tie this to pilot error again to avoid responsibility coming back to them.

[Manhattanboy]

What are the AC and WJ codes for the grounded 737-MAX 8 and 9? I think B738 is the 737-800 which is an older 737. Thanks.

[Acey]

Lion Air families are already suing Boeing, and launched a second suit last week.

Lion Air themselves are now contemplating a suit against Boeing, saying their maintenance practices were not to blame as alleged by Boeing, and possibly seeking a way out of the massive multi-billion dollar order they have for more planes.

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

What are the AC and WJ codes for the grounded 737-MAX 8 and 9? I think B738 is the 737-800 which is an older 737. Thanks.

B38M or 7M8. Neither has MAX 9 so it doesn't matter but that's B39M and 7M9

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

What are the AC and WJ codes for the grounded 737-MAX 8 and 9? I think B738 is the 737-800 which is an older 737. Thanks.

The code for the max 8 is 7M8, as of yesterday on Air Canada site and emails.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The code for the max 8 is 7M8, as of yesterday on Air Canada site and emails.

Yeah there's a 4 character code and a 3 character code for different types, depending on the usage. And then sometimes airlines have their own codes that differentiate the same type with different seating configurations. So FlightAware and air traffic control call it B38M, most everything else call it 7M8.

[Flamenspiel]

Yea, just looking at AC flight that we are scheduled on. Basically, Air Canada is offline, they are not answering today as per a message from Tremblay. They do say that they are rebooking everyone......on their media release.

[Acey]

Unless you're flying in the next 24-48 I'd just chill and let them get their plans sorted out. Like you said, getting in touch with them today is a fool's errand.

[Flamenspiel]

Yea, i gathered as much, our flight leaves next week and i was looking to see if a new plane was showing up their web site.

[Bigtime]

Air Canada is already adjusting, YVR-OGG (Maui) is being operated this evening by a 77W. Biggest plane in their fleet, likely taking folks that were booked on YYC-OGG today (operated by the MAX) and the YVR-OGG flight (MAX also).

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by greyshep

So maybe an ignorant question, but how does a situation like this relate to the potential for lawsuits in the deaths of those involved in the 2 crashes so far?

Am I to assume that Boeing has been striving to avoid having these planes grounded to avoid litigation? Is this even a thing? Do we sign some waiver against filing suit for negligence in aircraft design/safety when we buy our tickets?

The cynic in me wonders if they were trying their best to tie this to pilot error again to avoid responsibility coming back to them.

At this point, the Lion Air investigation is ongoing and will take time to complete (most air accident investigations take at least 12 months). The ET investigation has just started. There is currently no evidence to conclusively state whether the aircraft or the crew were at fault for either crash. Some of the population are simply jumping to conclusions, led by emotion and blaming the aircraft.

What happens if either (or both) crews were found to have lost control of a perfectly controllable aircraft because proper SOP's/training/maintenance were not followed? The investigation needs to play out before any blame is laid. The MAX has currently been found guilty by public opinion, not by material facts and evidence.

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Lion Air Flight



Ethiopian Airlines Flight



Almost identical

Seriously dude. All you're doing is patrolling the internet and posting anything you can find to corroborate your opinion in all your posts in this thread.