Should Calgary Bid on the 2026 Olympics

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by nik-

sounds an awful lot like voting for Trump to trigger the libs.

At least I get to be on the immature fun side this time.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

https://howmuch.net/articles/olympic-costs

Cost overruns by %.

France 181%
Canada 720%
US 324%
Canada 65%
France 137%
Spain 266%
Norway 277%
US 151%
Japan 56%
Australia 90%
US 24%
Greece 49%
Italy 80%
China 2%
Canada 13%
UK 76%
Russia 289%
Brazil 51%

So conservatively let's say 40% overrun. Games will run us ~$7B-$10B. Who is paying for that? Province said no. Was it clear the Feds would be in with us for overruns? That wasn't clear was it?

Right now we're at ~$3B with all governments announcing what they'll contribute. How do you think we get another $4B? And if what everybody wants is a new hockey rink, why not just spend $500MM on a new rink and call it a day?

Oh right... "prestige" and "world class city" or some other total bs nobody actually cares about.

edit: and I should add that by the looks of it, cost overruns are a certainty. Budgets for the Olympics are meant to be blown.

Budgets are not meant to be blown. Your quote is another case of false rhetoric and assumption.

The percentage overages you quoted can easily be found online, but in no way can be compared to the 2026 proposal. The 2026 bid is the first to be under the Agenda 2020. Please point out one of those examples where the vast majority of venues are reused, and where capital projects aren’t involved.

Comparing past games budgets to Calgary’s is just wrong. Have you reviewed the Calgary budget or just piling on? If you have read and reviewed it, as I have thoroughly, and still have the same opinion, I’ll withdraw my criticism.

If not, please become accurately informed before voting.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I cant believe ANYONE honestly believes that the existing numbers are the ones that will be the final tally.

Hell, we aren't even sure what the current numbers are supposed to build entirely.

Not exactly true. We know what the costs are, including a $1B contingency. We just don’t know the cost sharing model.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

do you own a home?



is there any way to set this up so only impacted people can vote (property owners), or if everybody's voting, if you vote yes you have to agree to garnish your wages to pay your proportionate share for this incoming debacle?

Why stop there.

Bring back feudalism.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Most people are idiots who don’t budget properly and rack up debt and live far beyond their means. These are the people voting on this and don’t care one iota about civic finances and only “living for the day” which is short sighted and stupid.

I understand how democracy works I’m just challenging the notion that it’s the best way to run this particular plebiscite.

And many of these people own houses.

[Bunk]

The Federal funding condition threatens bid:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-funding-furor

The Mayor ready to move to cancel the whole thing unless an agreement can be made over weekend.

It is a weird condition that forces the City to spend more given Provincial amount.

Really, the fact that governments were making distinct announcements on their own with various conditions shows that the negotiation was not coordinated. One would have expected an agreement and all three levels coming out together to announce.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The Federal funding condition threatens bid:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-funding-furor

The Mayor ready to move to cancel the whole thing unless an agreement can be made over weekend.

It is a weird condition that forces the City to spend more given Provincial amount.

Really, the fact that governments were making distinct announcements on their own with various conditions shows that the negotiation was not coordinated. One would have expected an agreement and all three levels coming out together to announce.

I hope the bid and plebiscite gets cancelled.

[Joborule]

Well you're gonna get your wish. The province isn't gonna chip in more, and neither is the IOC.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The Federal funding condition threatens bid:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-funding-furor

The Mayor ready to move to cancel the whole thing unless an agreement can be made over weekend.

It is a weird condition that forces the City to spend more given Provincial amount.

Really, the fact that governments were making distinct announcements on their own with various conditions shows that the negotiation was not coordinated. One would have expected an agreement and all three levels coming out together to announce.

It mostly shows the Feds and NDP want to avoid being blamed for this not happening. The Feds commit their money in such a way that basically means the NDP has to step up. The NDP commit their money, but less than the city wanted, and with conditions that make attaining the money somewhat difficult. And now the city has to destroy its short and long term budgets to host, or cut costs of an already pathetically weak bid. I said this a few pages ago, but I do hope even the staunchest Yes support can concede this whole process has been disgraceful.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It mostly shows the Feds and NDP want to avoid being blamed for this not happening. The Feds commit their money in such a way that basically means the NDP has to step up. The NDP commit their money, but less than the city wanted, and with conditions that make attaining the money somewhat difficult. And now the city has to destroy its short and long term budgets to host, or cut costs of an already pathetically weak bid. I said this a few pages ago, but I do hope even the staunchest Yes support can concede this whole process has been disgraceful.

Disgraceful for whom? The city has put in probably the most of amount of effort into this bid as it possibly could without actually bidding.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well it's not like the city has been anywhere close to as transparent as they claimed they would be be. Significant portions of Olympic discussions were behind closed doors, we got a lot of redacted documents (some understandable, some not). The public engagement has been underwhelming, things like not releasing futures budgets until one day after the plebiscite looked sketchy.

They might have handled ticking all the boxes need to present a bid fine. The rest? Not so much.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

https://howmuch.net/articles/olympic-costs

Cost overruns by %.

...
Canada 65%
...
US 24%
...
Canada 13%
...

So conservatively let's say 40% overrun.

Why is saying there will be a 40% cost overrun "conservative"? The Winter Games have been held in North America twice in last 17 years and neither came close to a 40% overrun.

The biggest contributor to cost-overruns is new construction. Like Vancouver 2010, the Calgary 2026 plan has a limited amount of new construction.

From your own link:

So why is it so singularly difficult to deliver the Olympics within budget? As the report somewhat sarcastically summarizes: “If, perversely, one would want to make it as difficult as possible to deliver a megaproject to budget, then one would (1) make sure that those responsible for delivering the project had never delivered this type of project before, (2) place the project in a location that had never seen such a project and (3) enforce a non-transparent and corrupt bidding process that would encourage overbidding and place zero responsibility for costs with the entity that would decide who wins the bid. This, unfortunately, is a fairly accurate description of the playbook for the Olympic Games”.

The first and second factors aren't issues for Calgary's 2026 bid since the people involved were involved with Vancouver 2010 and many other large-scale international events, and Calgary has successfully hosted the Olympics previously. The third factor depends on whether or not the IOC is truly sincere in changing the way they do things. That's a much-harder one to determine, but the reality is that if the IOC doesn't change the way they do things, they'll be killing themselves in the process.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The Federal funding condition threatens bid:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-funding-furor

The Mayor ready to move to cancel the whole thing unless an agreement can be made over weekend.

It is a weird condition that forces the City to spend more given Provincial amount.

Really, the fact that governments were making distinct announcements on their own with various conditions shows that the negotiation was not coordinated. One would have expected an agreement and all three levels coming out together to announce.

If they can make the non-matching deal with the Feds that would move me a lot closer to be yes column.

370 city, 700 million province, 1.75 feds would look pretty attractive if a flames arena got thown in. This would make the myopic argument of the feds money is free make the project a win. That’s still 280 million short though.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m voting yes because upsetting the pile of condescending whiners on the “no” side is well worth the price!

I’d have to vote yes because there is $3B+ in spending I wouldn’t be responsible for in any way because I’m not a property owner, and therefore it would be stupid to not vote that way.

[troutman]

Swedish Taxpayers Association wants Calgary to win [Huffpo]

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Why stop there.

Bring back feudalism.

Lol

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m voting yes because upsetting the pile of condescending whiners on the “no” side is well worth the price!

I'd vote no to counter your vote

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The Federal funding condition threatens bid:

... correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the same condition that the Minister of Sport expressly stated in a letter to Nenshi that was read in council a month and a half ago?

[zhulander]

Originally Posted by getbak

Why is saying there will be a 40% cost overrun "conservative"? The Winter Games have been held in North America twice in last 17 years and neither came close to a 40% overrun.

The biggest contributor to cost-overruns is new construction. Like Vancouver 2010, the Calgary 2026 plan has a limited amount of new construction.

From your own link:

The first and second factors aren't issues for Calgary's 2026 bid since the people involved were involved with Vancouver 2010 and many other large-scale international events, and Calgary has successfully hosted the Olympics previously. The third factor depends on whether or not the IOC is truly sincere in changing the way they do things. That's a much-harder one to determine, but the reality is that if the IOC doesn't change the way they do things, they'll be killing themselves in the process.

I actually do think Vancouver went over 40%. The 2003 BC auditor report is future orientated values and in CAD.
Projected costs of the games were $2,892 mil and that's including the Sea to Sky highway upgrade. Actual costs from the post games report is $4,083 not including the Sea to Sky. So if that did come on budget it's closer to $4,683 actual vs $2,892 estimated.



pg 10: http://cfss.sites.olt.ubc.ca/files/2...2013-10-23.pdf



pg 5: https://www.bcauditor.com/sites/defa...r-games-an.pdf

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Dion

I hope the bid and plebiscite gets cancelled.

Sounds about right. Govs spending money on a conmittee and vote - to just cancel it all in the end and waste more money.