[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[kevman]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Note/disclaimer: I can't read the attachments right now.

I think it depends what the comparison is: Are we comparing existing arena vs. new or new arena vs. no team at all.

My point is based upon the latter.

Both. Many articles reference the act of louring teams form other municipalities.

Besides, as was previously stated the Flames remain one of the more profitable NHL franchises despite their antiquated stadium. New stadium or not, the Flames franchise isn't going anywhere.

[transplant99]

Oh and just for posterity sake..

Despite the mayor's declaration that CalgaryNEXT is a non-starter, Coun. Evan Woolley agreed with King that the project is still on pause while council and the Flames weigh both options.

"While I appreciate the mayor has never liked the CalgaryNEXT project this is a decision of council, it’s not his decision," Coun. Evan Woolley said. "There has been no decision by council; the mayor is not the one who makes this decision alone."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/04/01...hout-new-arena

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

That's not my point. My point is, there is an economic benefit to the Flames being here, and without them, there's a certain amount of money that simply would not get spent locally.

Yeah, but there's the rub. Is there an economic benefit? Nobody has shown us that there really is.

The vague "it brings in money" doesn't cut it. No doubt it brings in some money, but does it bring in nearly as much as went out? There seems to be plenty of evidence that it would not.

I'm drinking beer right now. When I take the cans back, they'll bring in some money. Now sure, I'm getting a buzz and having a grand old time here in the sauna with some old friends, but I'll still be dehydrated in the morning, and I'll be poorer for it even with the bottle returns!

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Alright, even if this was the case, where do cities get their revenue? Not from sales tax? So you and MAYBE 25 thousand other people go to Edmonton 5 times a year. Is that really an economic detriment? That's what, worth the property tax of one local pub over the course of the year?

Hardly worth 1.5 billion, no?

http://calgary.ca/CA/FS/Pages/Action...enditures.aspx

First off, I have no idea what the 1.5 billion thing you are talking about is coming from, nor was I telling the city of Calgary how to spend their money. I do not see how the link you provided has anything to do with the points I've challenged you on.
My point is that the Flames do bring money into the local Calgary economy from outside of Calgary and if they did not exist, most of that money would be gone, along with many Calgarians chosing to spend that money elsewhere.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

First off, I have no idea what the 1.5 billion thing you are talking about is coming from, nor was I telling the city of Calgary how to spend their money. I do not see how the link you provided has anything to do with the points I've challenged you on.
My point is that the Flames do bring money into the local Calgary economy from outside of Calgary and if they did not exist, most of that money would be gone, along with many Calgarians chosing to spend that money elsewhere.

OK people coming to Calgary to spend money DOES NOT GIVE THE CITY money. The city doesn't get a penny of the sale. Feds get sales taxes and income .People can choose to spend their money on NFL games and massages in Banff and there's little, if any, effect on the city's revenue.

So your point is just terribad.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Not true. Think of the converse argument - the need for properly placed arenas, otherwise people struggle to support them. Arenas placed outside the major market metropolis struggle immensely. Especially when games start at around 7:00pm. The fact is you spend your money where its convenient. As a realtor, you should understand the basic concept of location (... location, location). So why suggest you would spend all this extra disposable income at a highly inconvenient location? C'mon.

I am confused what you are asking... if Calgary had no NHL team, would I travel to Edmonton to see my favorite team play? And as a realtor I should understand it is about location location location, therefore, I shouldn't drive 3 hours to the closest arena to see my favorite hockey team?

I travel much farther to spend my disposable income and watch my favorite NFL teams or watch my favorite musicians or enjoy my favorite beaches so while I do understand the concept of location I also understand that I need to travel to inconvenient places to enjoy certain things. This would also become the case should Calgary not host an NHL team.

Or were you referring to an arena in West Village being a poor geographic location outside of a major metropolis? I would disagree with this as well.

[Red_Baron]

So the local economy is restricted to the municipal government?

[Bunk]

The HNIC panel touched on it. MacLean suggested, Hrudey nodded - Flames want "Edmonton deal"

Good luck with that.

[spetch]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

OK people coming to Calgary to spend money DOES NOT GIVE THE CITY money. The city doesn't get a penny of the sale. Feds get sales taxes and income .People can choose to spend their money on NFL games and massages in Banff and there's little, if any, effect on the city's revenue.

So your point is just terribad.

Does it give the money to people who live in the city who then can afford to pay taxes and live in the city?

[kevman]

Originally Posted by spetch

Does it give the money to people who live in the city who then can afford to pay taxes and live in the city?

The owners? The ones that should be paying for their own stadium?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The HNIC panel touched on it. MacLean suggested, Hrudey nodded - Flames want "Edmonton deal"

Good luck with that.

Talk to Rachel!

[spetch]

Originally Posted by kevman

The owners? The ones that should be paying for their own stadium?

The discussion isn't about flames money. It's about the money coming into the city from out of town as a result of the flames. Some people are out there saying there is zero economic factors which isn't not true at all. Is there enough money coming in to cover 1B hell no, but it isn't zero like some posters are saying.

[Yoho]

The sad thing is I think the Flames mistakenly think they are in a position of strength in this.
Go ahead boys show us by becoming the next Cleveland Barons.

[Flash Walken]

King did not say the Flames are moving if they don't build a building, he said they would move if they "don't get a deal."

The Flames are unwilling to fork over the cash, probably not even the majority, to fund a new stadium.

The Flames won't be happy unless they walk away having paid a minority amount for a new arena/district.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by spetch

Does it give the money to people who live in the city who then can afford to pay taxes and live in the city?

Calgary is a hot real estate market regardless. Land investment (therefore city tax revenue) is not tied to people spending money in the city during hockey games. It's 41 times a year in revenue for local drinking establishments. Even if those local pubs aren't capable of surviving without those hockey games, someone else will own the land and pay the taxes.

[HappyGilmore]

LOL,might as well have everyone in this thread take the lead roles in the arena moving forward or not. So many experts

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

King did not say the Flames are moving if they don't build a building, he said they would move if they "don't get a deal."

The Flames are unwilling to fork over the cash, probably not even the majority, to fund a new stadium.

The Flames won't be happy unless they walk away having paid a minority amount for a new arena/district.

Katz paid 19 million. Of course would like a deal like that.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by spetch

The discussion isn't about flames money. It's about the money coming into the city from out of town as a result of the flames. Some people are out there saying there is zero economic factors which isn't not true at all. Is there enough money coming in to cover 1B hell no, but it isn't zero like some posters are saying.

Not zero but far from a convincing economic argument. Here's another quote from an article I posted earlier:

Sports facilities attract neither tourists nor new industry. Probably the most successful export facility is Oriole Park, where about a third of the crowd at every game comes from outside the Baltimore area. (Baltimore’s baseball exports are enhanced because it is 40 miles from the nation’s capital, which has no major league baseball team.) Even so, the net gain to Baltimore’s economy in terms of new jobs and incremental tax revenues is only about $3 million a year—not much of a return on a $200 million investment.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/s...orth-the-cost/

Considering the average life span of a stadium is 30 years that's a pretty terrible investment as far as I'm concerned.

[spetch]

Originally Posted by kevman

Not zero but far from a convincing economic argument. Here's another quote from an article I posted earlier:



https://www.brookings.edu/articles/s...orth-the-cost/



Considering the average life span of a stadium is 30 years that's a pretty terrible investment as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with the bad return on investment part. I just don't agree with other posters saying that it's zero. I don't have a side one way or the other but if others keep telling me that my out of town money doesn't help them, I can gladly spend it in another town that it will benefit.

[goodyear]

Moving is a hollow threat. Where ever they move to in the US, they'll be Phoenix 2.0 in less than 5 years.

I'm just annoyed that buffoon King would come out and actually say that. Here we are, days away from the playoffs and thousands of fans will be fuelling their passion while handing money to hand over and fist to CESC and he says that.

I thought the was a click bait joke story on April's Fool. So disappointing. F this guy