Colten Bushie murder trial

[troutman]

CBC, Boushie Podcast:

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcasts/boushie/

In 2016 Colten Boushie, a young Indigenous man, was shot and killed on a farm in rural Saskatchewan, inciting racial tensions across the province. This is the story of that man and the white farmer, Gerald Stanley, who was charged in his death.
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Visit Show Site: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...cast-1.4503933

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So again, what evidence or inclination is there that Stanley's actions were fueled my racist motivations?

I agree that it wasn't racially motivated outside of the general cultural preexisting prejudice that Natives are no good and therefore the first reaction is negative. But that is difficult for any individual who grew up in a culture of racism to control.

However this general complaint that this story isn't about race is false. The media is correct in looking at the institutions that led up to the event and surrounded the event.

Did the RCMP do its job
Did the court do its job
Is there systemic bias in the justice system against native victims and perpetrators.

These are the items that frame the story. Your comment that people are looking for racism that doesn't exist is false. The public reaction to this incident warrants the investigation into the structures that allow this pervasive and systemic racism to exist.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not a "gun guy" so pardon my ignorance, but on the radio a few minutes ago, they were saying he wasn't sure how many bullets he had loaded. He fired two warning shots and then fired a third and the gun didn't go off. He took the clip out and after that he pointed it at Boushies head and it went off. I don't know if that's accurate, but that's the chronology given by Rob Breakenridge a few minutes ago. Does that change things, in your view? I have to say that it does in mine. If he pulled the trigger and nothing happened, and he took the clip out, he obviously didn't plan on killing this guy?

Also, I’d be curious to know how plausible such a misfire (with apparently a significant delay) is?

Just seems so unlikely/convenient to me. But again, I know nothing about firearms.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Also, I’d be curious to know how plausible such a misfire (with apparently a significant delay) is?

Just seems so unlikely/convenient to me. But again, I know nothing about firearms.

Ironically.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GGG

I agree that it wasn't racially motivated outside of the general cultural preexisting prejudice that Natives are no good and therefore the first reaction is negative. But that is difficult for any individual who grew up in a culture of racism to control.

However this general complaint that this story isn't about race is false. The media is correct in looking at the institutions that led up to the event and surrounded the event.

Did the RCMP do its job
Did the court do its job
Is there systemic bias in the justice system against native victims and perpetrators.

These are the items that frame the story. Your comment that people are looking for racism that doesn't exist is false. The public reaction to this incident warrants the investigation into the structures that allow this pervasive and systemic racism to exist.

So again, I'm wondering why Stanley has to bear this as part of his trial?

Should race be a strong consideration in all interracial crime?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ironically.

Today I learned about the Makarov pistol (to wit, that such a thing existed).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Today I learned about the Makarov pistol (to wit, that such a thing existed).

Its been standard Russian Police and Military Issue since 1951.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not a "gun guy" so pardon my ignorance, but on the radio a few minutes ago, they were saying he wasn't sure how many bullets he had loaded. He fired two warning shots and then fired a third and the gun didn't go off. He took the clip out and after that he pointed it at Boushies head and it went off. I don't know if that's accurate, but that's the chronology given by Rob Breakenridge a few minutes ago. Does that change things, in your view? I have to say that it does in mine. If he pulled the trigger and nothing happened, and he took the clip out, he obviously didn't plan on killing this guy?

Nope.

I'm not sure of the action on that handgun, but if he didn't pull the receiver back and personally check inside, the gun should be considered loaded. Whether there is a clip in or not, without checking there could be a bullet in a position where it could be fired and should have been considered lethal.

That was part of the practical exam in my FAC course and I would have failed if I ever took a gun and didn't check, and I would have failed if the muzzle was ever pointed at anyone. Stanley failed on both counts and someone died.

[undercoverbrother]

nm

[Kjesse]

This happened in 1994 15km's from the Stanley farm. A relative of Boushie's uncle who is in the press these last few days was one of the gunmen:

https://www.producer.com/1994/11/mur...eGuyrM.twitter

And this happened in 2016 in Bonnyville, two natives break into a senior's garage, shoot him, and steal his truck:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...says-1.3815010

I guess those indigenous folk, the shooters in each case, were racist since they shot white men?

Was there outrage and did Trudeau say something had to be done based on the race of the shooters and the victims?

Of course not.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

How would you describe what the people in the s.u.v wrre doing then? Used a gun to try to steal a truck, tried to steal an a.t.v. drunk while driving, had a loaded rifle in the front seat , use of a firearm while intoxicated etc etc...

They admitted to commiting crimes. They are criminals whether they were charged or not. They said so them selves.

I'm actually amazed they were not charged with any crimes. I havent found any sources anyways to that effect.

I hate this has turned into a racial thing and not just some terrible people that started a chaotic chain of events.

This wasn't a case of a unarmed person minding their own bussiness getting gunned down . Theses adults were commiting crimes and causing a danger to the public . Had they just stayed home and had a few drinks there this never happens.

It is a tradgic story but a story they carved out for them selves.

I'm reminded of the case where some young men trespassed on the Luge track at COP, and two boys died.

Did the fact that the boys were trespassing absolve COP of any blame?

Did these boys have more sympathy in the community because they were white boys from a private school? What if they had been from a minority group?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its been standard Russian Police and Military Issue since 1951.

Despite my slavish and militant devotion to leftist dogma, I have not in fact ever served the Soviet Union as either a member of the military, police or KGB.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Despite my slavish and militant devotion to leftist dogma, I have not in fact ever served the Soviet Union as either a member of the military, police or KGB.

I'll believe your story....for now....

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by troutman

I'm reminded of the case where some young men trespassed on the Luge track at COP, and two boys died.

Did the fact that the boys were trespassing absolve COP of any blame?

Yes. https://globalnews.ca/news/2503513/w...deaths-lawyer/

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Also, I’d be curious to know how plausible such a misfire (with apparently a significant delay) is?

Just seems so unlikely/convenient to me. But again, I know nothing about firearms.

Implausible in my opinion given the delay. Much more likely he pulled the trigger by accident in the struggle for the keys or he meant to shoot and lied about it.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

This happened in 1994 15km's from the Stanley farm. A relative of Boushie's uncle who is in the press these last few days was one of the gunmen:

https://www.producer.com/1994/11/mur...eGuyrM.twitter

And this happened in 2016 in Bonnyville, two natives break into a senior's garage, shoot him, and steal his truck:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...says-1.3815010

I guess those indigenous folk, the shooters in each case, were racist since they shot white men?

Was there outrage and did Trudeau say something had to be done based on the race of the shooters and the victims?

Of course not.

Well, surely even you can give Trudeau a pass for not publicly commenting in 1994. I hope.

And not sure what similarities between the acquittal of Mr. Stanley and the conviction of the two accused in 2016 should have prompted similar expressions of concern about the efficacy of the justice system?

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

Nope.

I'm not sure of the action on that handgun, but if he didn't pull the receiver back and personally check inside, the gun should be considered loaded. Whether there is a clip in or not, without checking there could be a bullet in a position where it could be fired and should have been considered lethal.

That was part of the practical exam in my FAC course and I would have failed if I ever took a gun and didn't check, and I would have failed if the muzzle was ever pointed at anyone. Stanley failed on both counts and someone died.

Dont disagree that Stanley failed as described but these events did unfold in a classroom . This was a potential life and death situation where a car load of people rolled onto his property driving a vehicle with a flat tire trying to steal and drive into things. They didnt come and knock on his door politely and he over reacted by pulling a gun. The situation could have been very frightening for him and his family. I can see how he could have lost track of how many shots he had fired under the pressure of the situation. I think things may have been chaotic in the moments leading up to the shooting.

[icecube]

I don't know if Gerald Stanley is a racist man. I just think that Colten Boushie would still be alive if he were white because society does not value the lives of indigenous people the same way it values the lives of white people. Society has unconsciously conditioned people to fear indigenous men.

I think Stanley lost his temper in the heat of the moment and shot the kid in the head and he should be in jail for manslaughter.

I think the justice system let the indigenous community down by having an all white jury. I also know a lot of the people who support Gerald Stanley are racist. This case obviously has a lot to do with race.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

Did these boys have more sympathy in the community because they were white boys from a private school? What if they had been from a minority group?

Not really comparable at all. It wasn't just the mere act of trespassing on private property where peoples sympathies depart. Were they trying to steal vehicles from COP? Were they driving a motor vehicle while being 3-4 times more intoxicated than the legal limit? Had they also tried to steal from other properties adjacent to COP? Did they have a weapon on board their truck? Did they get into an altercation with people while they were on the COP property?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

I agree that it wasn't racially motivated outside of the general cultural preexisting prejudice that Natives are no good and therefore the first reaction is negative. But that is difficult for any individual who grew up in a culture of racism to control.

I don't know if you can reach that conclusion, looking at his testimony though

He said he was fixing a fence with his son, Sheldon, 28, while his wife mowed the lawn. A vehicle drove into the yard. Its occupants appeared to be attempting to steal a quad ATV.

When they heard Sheldon yelling, the people got back in the car and reversed toward Stanley. Stanley said he kicked the tail light. The vehicle then drove forward, revving fast, toward Sheldon, who hit the windshield with a hammer. The vehicle then rammed into one of the Stanley family's unoccupied SUV vehicles.


Stanley said Sheldon then ran off. By this point, Stanley said he was afraid, thinking of the news reports of cars crashing into crowds and a double murder that occurred 15 kilometres from his farm yard.


"I was still in disbelief about what was going on here," Stanley testified.


tanley said he heard two loud sounds as he aimed skyward and pulled the trigger two or three times. The two males fled, he said. Stanley said he lowered the gun and checked to ensure it was disabled.


"As far as I was concerned, it was empty — it had fired its last shot," Stanley testified.


He said he then realized he couldn't see his wife, and had a feeling of "pure terror" fearing she'd been pinned under the grey SUV.


Stanley said he was going to look under the vehicle, but popped back up after it started revving again.


"I wanted that car off," he said.


Stanley said he reached for the keys with one hand, with the handgun in the other. Then the gun fired.

If we're going to talk about state of mind, could it be about racism? Sure, but it could also be about a guy who was feeling threatened and then had a fear that a family member had been harmed/had been run over by a car, that was after the SUV tried to run him over.

There was nothing in his testimony about race, or even the condition of the occupants of the car. He was in a situation that wasn't too different from a home invasion.

However, and fairly, I have said in the past that I don't believe in guns for home defense, because its likely that an accident will happen, or you'll end up killing the people that you want to save.

Originally Posted by GGG

However this general complaint that this story isn't about race is false. The media is correct in looking at the institutions that led up to the event and surrounded the event.

Did the RCMP do its job
Did the court do its job
Is there systemic bias in the justice system against native victims and perpetrators.

I don't know if agree with a lot of your statements. however

did the RCMP do their job, you could argue either way, they couldn't build a good enough case to probe that a hang fire couldn't have happened, based around things like the physical conditions of the expended shells and the gun itself. They also had a lousy set of witnesses who lied and changed their stories on the stand.

did the Court do its job, in my mind there was a lot of reasonable doubt, so the fact that Stanley wasn't convicted means that yes the court actually did its job.

The racial bias thing, sure maybe, but can you tell me that if they empaneled a native jury and they heard the evidence that they would then convict. Because then they would have ignored, bad testimony and reasonable doubt and they would have been a hanging party.

I would also state that lost in this, was that this case wasn't about the race of the victim, it was about whether Stanley murdered a victim. This case wasn't about the reasons why the murder took place as much as around the technical reasons for the death.

But everyone wants to make this a native versus white thing, I don't really buy that in its purest form that it is. But now we've got manufactured outrage.

Did the gun hang fire, or did Stanley deliberately executed Boushie. That's the question, that was the only thing on trial.



These are the items that frame the story. Your comment that people are looking for racism that doesn't exist is false. The public reaction to this incident warrants the investigation into the structures that allow this pervasive and systemic racism to exist.[/QUOTE]