Are the Flames Stanley Cup Contenders?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Out of those 4 teams, I think I'd much rather face SJ.

Edmonton seems to get into our heads, Ducks Nuff Said and Vegas is trouble for the flames so far.

Flames are 1-1 against Edmonton this year and they are a terrible team that should be the easiest to defend against.

Anaheim is a terrible team this year and quite possibly will be coached by Dallas Eakins by then. The Flames did lose really early on but only because Miller was crazy good that game. Plus Flames will have home ice.

The Flames have beaten Winnipeg pretty convincingly twice.

Flames are 1-1 against SJ. But that was a weird win: 8-5. Rittich wasn't great, Neal scored the winner. The 3-1 loss was a credible performance by Smith, but just a bad offensive showing that wouldn't usually happen. I suppose the issue is that this was just prior to the SJ hot streak.

[Toonage]

Flames have yet to win a single game in Edmonton's new building. Not even an exhibition.

Flames have yet to win in Las Vegas.

Flames have won once in Anaheim in 10 years.

If we had the choice, I'd rather avoid those teams. Poor or not (and in Vegas' case, not) I'd hate to ask the Flames to accomplish something 3-4 times in 2 weeks that they haven't been able to do anywhere between 2 years and 10 years.

Late edit - The playoffs are already a pressure filled difficult time. Why add other storylines?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Flames have yet to win a single game in Edmonton's new building. Not even an exhibition.

Flames have yet to win in Las Vegas.

Flames have won once in Anaheim in 10 years.

If we had the choice, I'd rather avoid those teams. Poor or not (and in Vegas' case, not) I'd hate to ask the Flames to accomplish something 3-4 times in 2 weeks that they haven't been able to do anywhere between 2 years and 10 years.

Late edit - The playoffs are already a pressure filled difficult time. Why add other storylines?

A couple things.

Regarding winning on the road in LV, it's what, 3 games so far? Not a big sample size, but they are a great home team for sure.

"3-4 times in 2 weeks"? They currently wouldn't have to win any, but if they do lose home ice advantage they'd only have to win once in the other building.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by the2bears

"3-4 times in 2 weeks"? They currently wouldn't have to win any, but if they do lose home ice advantage they'd only have to win once in the other building.

Trying to think of a worst case scenario where they would either go to 7 games with home ice or lose home ice etc.

Lose once on the road and now those home games mean that much more. Again, additional pressure.

Point being, if you didn't have to face any additional obstacles, it would be preferred. To me, playing Edmonton, Anaheim or Vegas would be additional obstacles.

Finishing first and hoping to see Minnesota in round 1. Thats the dream.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Flames have yet to win a single game in Edmonton's new building. Not even an exhibition.

Flames have yet to win in Las Vegas.

Flames have won once in Anaheim in 10 years.

If we had the choice, I'd rather avoid those teams. Poor or not (and in Vegas' case, not) I'd hate to ask the Flames to accomplish something 3-4 times in 2 weeks that they haven't been able to do anywhere between 2 years and 10 years.

Late edit - The playoffs are already a pressure filled difficult time. Why add other storylines?

Vegas was a great team last year and Calgary wasn't - not surprising they won. Calgary also handed Vegas its ass twice in the Dome.

Flames won once in Anaheim, true. But that was just last year. And again, how many of those games were against really really good Anaheim teams, with really really bad Calgary teams?

Edmonton? meh. Not afraid of that team one tiny bit. Especially now that Koskinen has returned to Earth.

Every team has a story line. SJ has people all worried about Kane. Flames haven't beaten Dallas this year. St. Louis has always played tough - Flames are 1-2 this year.

Let those teams worry about playing the Flames, I say.

[Stay Golden]

The Flames are proving to be an elite team they only need a small tweak at deadline. A big third-fourth line hard checking skater.
Not a once was player that we seem to add every season a hard checking winger who still plays hard physical game and has wheels.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Trying to think of a worst case scenario where they would either go to 7 games with home ice or lose home ice etc.

Lose once on the road and now those home games mean that much more. Again, additional pressure.

Point being, if you didn't have to face any additional obstacles, it would be preferred. To me, playing Edmonton, Anaheim or Vegas would be additional obstacles...

Point taken, but the key to winning a playoff round is simple: Win your games at home, and win one game on the road.

The Flames have a home record of 15-4-4 and a 15-9-0 record on the road.
The Sharks are similarly 17-4-4 at home, but a considerably less impressive 11-9-3 on the road.
The Golden Knights? 15-4-3 at home, and a pedestrian 13-13-1 on the road.

The Flames are a good bet to win any series, regardless of their opponent and circumstances.

[Classic_Sniper]

Flames are definite contenders in the West. But I don't see the Flames beating out the Lightning for a Cup. They have the deepest forward group and in a 7 game series, the 3rd and 4th line's matching up against each other could be the difference maker. It's part of the reason why the PP2 unit is so underwhelming.

But if the team can make a significant splash at the deadline, maybe that tips the scales our way.

[jayswin]

We need either Neal to get back to being an offensive threat or to acquire one more scoring threat if we want to go deep this spring, imo.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The Flames are proving to be an elite team they only need a small tweak at deadline. A big third-fourth line hard checking skater.
Not a once was player that we seem to add every season a hard checking winger who still plays hard physical game and has wheels.

If I was Treviling I'd seriously consider making a big push for deadline acquisitions. A Duchene or a Stone, or both. Or a real solid top four D-man.

As it stands, Tampa looks like the team to beat, and I think the Flames need to get a little deeper in order to get past them.

You could call it mortgaging the future, but the future is now. This year and the next 3 are the best time for the Flames to go for it all IMO. Gaudreau's next contract will be a monster, and while Giordano is having an amazing season, the clock is ticking on him.

Looking at teams like the Kings and Hawks, Hawks were really only contenders for about 8 years. Kings shorter. Hawks had some back diving cap cheating contracts too.

If you want to be a team that is taking home Stanley Cups you might have to
just make the big move and push everything into your window. Teams like Nashville and San Jose stay good for ever with a long term view, but they haven't won anything either.

First round picks are unlikely to be big contributors over the next three years, so it might be worth it to go for it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

If you want to be a team that is taking home Stanley Cups you might have to
just make the big move and push everything into your window. Teams like Nashville and San Jose stay good for ever with a long term view, but they haven't won anything either.

First round picks are unlikely to be big contributors over the next three years, so it might be worth it to go for it.

San Jose and Nashville are interesting examples. Both traded first round picks last year at the deadline and neither made it past the second round. So Sharks made another all-in trade at the start of this year and Nashville will need to decide at the deadline again whether they move more high picks.

It might be prudent to see how this team performs in the playoffs before you start trading too many picks. The Flames this year are an excellent example of how important it is to have high performing players in ELC’s. Such players are much more valuable than anything you pick up at the deadline IMO. We are going to want such players over the next few years.

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Flames have yet to win a single game in Edmonton's new building. Not even an exhibition.

Flames have yet to win in Las Vegas.

Flames have won once in Anaheim in 10 years.

In fairness, barely any visiting teams have had much success in Vegas. The Knights have been absolutely dominant at home this season and last. The Flames are 0-3 there, with games remaining in that rink this year. Let's see how they do in those.

In any event, it's definitely preferable to have home ice against those guys. Same with Anaheim & Edmonton. But let's face it, head coaches & GM's are like politicians: they'll say anything to give their side an edge, like claiming it's easier to be the road team or it's an advantage to have … uh... home-ice advantage.

[dino7c]

Flames won't have to play the night before every playoff game in Edmonton like they do during the regular season

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

San Jose and Nashville are interesting examples. Both traded first round picks last year at the deadline and neither made it past the second round. So Sharks made another all-in trade at the start of this year and Nashville will need to decide at the deadline again whether they move more high picks.

It might be prudent to see how this team performs in the playoffs before you start trading too many picks. The Flames this year are an excellent example of how important it is to have high performing players in ELC’s. Such players are much more valuable than anything you pick up at the deadline IMO. We are going to want such players over the next few years.

San Jose actually traded a second round for Kane, but it turned into a first rounder because he re-signed.

Nashville traded a first rounder+ for Hartman and like you say, won but one round. I'm a bit baffled by that trade. Hartman is OK I guess, but not some sort of stud player.

Bruins traded a buttload of assets but mostly a first rounder for Nash who proceeded to not do much.

On the other hand Winnipeg got into the WCF but lost to Vegas in return for getting Stastny and giving up a first+. And Vegas went to the SCF after trading a first and getting Tatar. BUt Tatar wasn't a rental.

Lightning made a big splash trading picks etc, for McDonough and Miller. But neither ended up being a rental - McDonagh had another year and both ended up getting re-signed.

I think you could argue that all of those teams are pretty much as good without the players, and might have easily done just as well last POs.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

If I was Treviling I'd seriously consider making a big push for deadline acquisitions. A Duchene or a Stone, or both. Or a real solid top four D-man.

As it stands, Tampa looks like the team to beat, and I think the Flames need to get a little deeper in order to get past them.

You could call it mortgaging the future, but the future is now. This year and the next 3 are the best time for the Flames to go for it all IMO. Gaudreau's next contract will be a monster, and while Giordano is having an amazing season, the clock is ticking on him.

Looking at teams like the Kings and Hawks, Hawks were really only contenders for about 8 years. Kings shorter. Hawks had some back diving cap cheating contracts too.

If you want to be a team that is taking home Stanley Cups you might have to
just make the big move and push everything into your window. Teams like Nashville and San Jose stay good for ever with a long term view, but they haven't won anything either.

First round picks are unlikely to be big contributors over the next three years, so it might be worth it to go for it.

I think the Flames have the offensive horses to compete with Tampa. I believe Neal will come around during playoff time.



But Tampa has a huge edge in goaltending.



One tried and true method of beating a team in a seven game series is to wear them down. Bring on the sandpaper and target their offensive stars and crash that crease after every whistle. Wayne Simmonds is a name that gets tossed around a lot, but I'd love to have him in facewashing guys in ever scrum. I believe Philly's price will be too high though unfortunately.

[EldrickOnIce]

This is what the Athletic had to say, when finding pessimism for top 10 teams

Calgary Flames: Even if you make it all the way through the Western side of the bracket and reach the Stanley Cup final, you’re probably just going to be playing the Lightning, and history tells us that if you beat them the league will just ignore it and keep the series going until they win.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

San Jose actually traded a second round for Kane, but it turned into a first rounder because he re-signed.

Nashville traded a first rounder+ for Hartman and like you say, won but one round. I'm a bit baffled by that trade. Hartman is OK I guess, but not some sort of stud player.

Bruins traded a buttload of assets but mostly a first rounder for Nash who proceeded to not do much.

On the other hand Winnipeg got into the WCF but lost to Vegas in return for getting Stastny and giving up a first+. And Vegas went to the SCF after trading a first and getting Tatar. BUt Tatar wasn't a rental.

Lightning made a big splash trading picks etc, for McDonough and Miller. But neither ended up being a rental - McDonagh had another year and both ended up getting re-signed.

I think you could argue that all of those teams are pretty much as good without the players, and might have easily done just as well last POs.

Uh. What?

This defies belief. McDonough is playing 22-25 minutes a night for Tampa, the best team in the league by far.

Rick Nash scored 2 game winning goals last year in the playoffs.

Statsny was the 4th highest scorer for his conference final team.

Hartman, sure, but Nashville was desperate for offense after not being able to score enough then year prior and Hartman was 22/23 19 goal scorer.

If.sam Bennett scored 19 goals last year and was on pace for more points this year, what would you be asking for in a trade?

Bad trades happen at the deadline, but none of them are in the examples you're listing here, and they definitely are not cautionary tale of things the flames should avoid.

Saying a 1st for McDonough didnt move the needle for Tampa is like saying a 1st for hamonic doesnt move the needle for Calgary. Just baffling.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don't think you can say you will probably face the Lightning. Sure - they are the best team in the east but winning 3 rounds is incredibly hard.
Since 2002 the #1 seed has only made the finals 19% of the time. The #2, 31%. So there's a 50/50 chance its one of the top 2 seeds. I would say the bolts stand a better than 1/5 chance as they are a clear step above - but the point stands - it's damn hard to get there.
So I don't think the Flames should worry too much about constructing their team to beat the Lightning.

[Toonage]

Besides, we've seen the Flames match up against the Lightning this year. They're right there with them.

[Roof-Daddy]

Adding high priced rentals doesn't move the needle enough for me.

So many factors go into winning playoff rounds it's not worth the cost IMO. You could trade your 1st ++ for 2 months of a high priced rental and then have your goalie sieve out and be gone in the 1st round to a wild card team.

Cheap depth rentals? Yeah sure.
1st ++ for a long term, youngish useful piece? I'm ok with that too.
1st ++ for a high priced rental? Please, please, please no...