Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[TheKurgan]

There is no way the NHL lets the Flames leave Calgary. The risk to fans is that we are going to slowly transition from a Cap Team to a Budget Team and the 'on ice' and 'in rink' experience will suffer. I personally already think the 'in rink' experience is average at best and not worth the face value ticket price.

The same can be said about the Stampeders, love the team but paying $100 a ticket (red seats) to take the family to that dump of a stadium is getting tough to justify.

[TheIronMaiden]

Maybe this has been answered before. How large is the Flames ownership group now?

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Maybe this has been answered before. How large is the Flames ownership group now?

https://www.nhl.com/flames/team/owners

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Maybe this has been answered before. How large is the Flames ownership group now?

https://www.nhl.com/flames/team/owners

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Teams are bought and sold and relocated. It is somewhat amusing that there is this perception that the Flames are unique within the NHL. Brian Burke publicly said without a new arena the team would leave without any fanfare.

Without any fanfare? I seem to remember burke being criticized pretty soundly for those remarks.

$$ talks and the flames in Calgary are worth more than 5-10 teams in the league right now being where they are. The BOG isn't going to do it just to line Murrays pockets when they have lucrative Canadian TV deals and a rabid fan base.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

There is no way the NHL lets the Flames leave Calgary. The risk to fans is that we are going to slowly transition from a Cap Team to a Budget Team and the 'on ice' and 'in rink' experience will suffer. I personally already think the 'in rink' experience is average at best and not worth the face value ticket price.

The same can be said about the Stampeders, love the team but paying $100 a ticket (red seats) to take the family to that dump of a stadium is getting tough to justify.

Again, Bettman has publicly stated that the existing situation in Calgary cannot remain indefinitely.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Teams are bought and sold and relocated. It is somewhat amusing that there is this perception that the Flames are unique within the NHL. Brian Burke publicly said without a new arena the team would leave without any fanfare.

Yes, but you've said nothing here. Burke towed the company line pretty darn well. He was a fantastic advocate for his team and ownership. I'm not sure if you are quoting him from after he left, but if so, it wouldn't shock me to hear that he was still loyal to Edwards.

I laid out a case for the flames moving to Houston costing teams a billion plus dollars several posts back. So convince me that 30 owners + Bettman who is carving his final legacy all of a sudden stopped liking money, and you can convince me that they would ever allow the Flames to move to Houston.

Edwards is a cog in a machine that's expanding. He doesn't make unilateral decisions. If that much is unclear to you, then it will be as if we are having two different conversations.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Again, Bettman has publicly stated that the existing situation in Calgary cannot remain indefinitely.

Pure lip-service.

The Flames are in the upper half of revenue drivers in this league despite our antique building.

Would a new building be better? Of course! But even with our creaky old rat-trap we're better off than half of the rest of the league.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Yes, but you've said nothing here. Burke towed the company line pretty darn well. He was a fantastic advocate for his team and ownership. I'm not sure if you are quoting him from after he left, but if so, it wouldn't shock me to hear that he was still loyal to Edwards.

I laid out a case for the flames moving to Houston costing teams a billion plus dollars several posts back. So convince me that 30 owners + Bettman who is carving his final legacy all of a sudden stopped liking money, and you can convince me that they would ever allow the Flames to move to Houston.

Edwards is a cog in a machine that's expanding. He doesn't make unilateral decisions. If that much is unclear to you, then it will be as if we are having two different conversations.

I am not making the business case for a sale one way or another so we don’t need to argue about that. I just doubt the views of many that the NHL will block a relocation of the Flames.

[Bunk]

Given what I've heard about stuff, I'm quite optimistic a deal is gonna happen.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If the Flames left I take it that would leave the Hitmen in limbo too? Would CSEC dissolve without the Flames?

Don't forget the Stampeders. The Stamps without a new stadium are actually in a worse situation than the Flames in that they are still winning but fewer people want to go to McMahon to watch games. I can't imagine he's going to want to deal with that as he will probably look to sell those teams to a local buyer possibly as a package.

[Erick Estrada]

Yeah there's no way the NHL blocks the Flames moving. That's just not going to happen despite what some fans think. That said I think city hall is playing nicer now behind the scenes and something will get done.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Given what I've heard about stuff, I'm quite optimistic a deal is gonna happen.

You are far and away the most trusted source for City information on this site, very glad to hear this

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Teams are bought and sold and relocated. It is somewhat amusing that there is this perception that the Flames are unique within the NHL. Brian Burke publicly said without a new arena the team would leave without any fanfare.

Yea, like the Coyotes. That has been a pretty quick process. Perhaps like Atlanta, where they even went back for a second beating. All we are hearing is rumours, rumours that sound like a classic media disinformation campaign designed to improve a negotiating position.

Furthermore, there are at least 5-10 teams in much worse shape then the Flames, I would be more worried as an Ottawa fan. They do not even have a fan base, most of the residents either root for the Habs or the Leafs.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The BOG isn't going to do it just to line Murrays pockets when they have lucrative Canadian TV deals and a rabid fan base.

Forget that - how about this math for the NHL:


Seattle - $500 million
Houston - $500 million
Quebec City - $500 million


What would the NHL get for a "relocation fee"? $50 mil? $100 mil?


I believe Bettman (and the other owners) sees $1.5 billion in the not too distant future.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Again, Bettman has publicly stated that the existing situation in Calgary cannot remain indefinitely.

Heres the problem: The Saddledome, for all of its faults, is free.

The Flames pay $1 per year in rent. Not a typo.

So to get a bigger, better, newer stadium would be awesome, we'd all love it, but what it wont be is free.

Current stadium (Saddledome) = Free

New Stadium = Not Free

Herein lies the problem.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Locke

Pure lip-service.

The Flames are in the upper half of revenue drivers in this league despite our antique building.

Would a new building be better? Of course! But even with our creaky old rat-trap we're better off than half of the rest of the league.

At a recent STH event it was said the Flames receive money from the NHL as part of the revenue sharing. No idea how the NHL manages it all, but if they are receiving they are probably around the mid point for teams.

I also think that Burke's and Bettman's comments has more to do with long term future. I think we can all agree that in the next 5 years this teams isn't going anywhere. Once you start getting farther out I don't think you can be so certain if nothing has changed.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Forget that - how about this math for the NHL:


Seattle - $500 million
Houston - $500 million
Quebec City - $500 million


What would the NHL get for a "relocation fee"? $50 mil? $100 mil?


I believe Bettman (and the other owners) sees $1.5 billion in the not too distant future.

I think it will be more than that. Also, it will all take place after Bettman hammers through the no sharing of expansion money with the players on the new CBA, likely after the next lockout. God these guys are dicks...

That's 50 million per team and without Houston there is no Quebec.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Robbob

At a recent STH event it was said the Flames receive money from the NHL as part of the revenue sharing. No idea how the NHL manages it all, but if they are receiving they are probably around the mid point for teams.

I also think that Burke's and Bettman's comments has more to do with long term future. I think we can all agree that in the next 5 years this teams isn't going anywhere. Once you start getting farther out I don't think you can be so certain if nothing has changed.

I get it. We do need a new arena and we're going to get one, they just have to hammer out the terms.

Unfortunately, Edmonton screwed us by giving Katz everything and then some. Who wouldnt want the same deal?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Major Major

I think it will be more than that. Also, it will all take place after Bettman hammers through the no sharing of expansion money with the players on the new CBA, likely after the next lockout. God these guys are dicks...

That's 50 million per team and without Houston there is no Quebec.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe expansion fees are currently shared with players.