[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[sureLoss]

Oh no. Treliving better make a stupid trade so that other GMs won't catch on to how smart he is.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by VilleN

No GM is making a bad trade on purpose. If a GM has any confidence in his abilities he'd trade with any other GM, as long as the deal makes sense to them. They may pay closer attention if they know they are dealing with a shrewd GM, but it's not like they'd avoid making a trade because the GM they are dealing with has a reputation.

Exactly. I dont buy that line of thinking. Are GMs avoiding David Poille after his Forsberg trade? I doubt that trade is even really a thought. Like you said Im sure his overall reputation is a much bigger factor.

[CroFlames]

Lindy has been a beast everywhere on the ice, in all situations. Only Gio is comparable to him when it comes to being able to play all situations at a high level.



I love Johnny and Mony as much as the next Flames fan, but boy howdy having Lindy as a PP and PK monster is crazy when the top line isn't on the ice for 5 on 5.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Oh no. Treliving better make a stupid trade so that other GMs won't catch on to how smart he is.

Hamonic and a 2nd for kotalik!

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah because Cliff Fletcher had so much trouble getting deals after winning trades on the regular.

I don't think Treliving will have much trouble making trades.

Maybe grab a calendar and realize how long ago Cliff Fletcher was a GM.

One of his other famous quotes was Draft Schmaft. Think about how well that would work today?

It's a different era. When GM's make deals now it optimally needs to be a win-win because the cap makes mistakes that more costly.

I don't think this trade will affect Treliving's reputation as much as Waddell's. Waddell made another bad trade, and the Flames have liked Lindholm for a while. Treliving could say... after having six 2013 first round picks in the organization it is nice to have two turn out great.

Still, a GM has to be aware and cautious of the optics. The days of blowhards like Glen Sather pronouncing how great he would be in Edmonton if he had the Rangers budget are gone because everyone else is waiting to pump it down your throat when you grandstand.

Even Burke learned this lesson after pronouncing how he was going to get John Tavares with the Leafs in the 2009 Entry Draft.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

Maybe grab a calendar and realize how long ago Cliff Fletcher was a GM.

One of his other famous quotes was Draft Schmaft. Think about how well that would work today?

It's a different era. When GM's make deals now it optimally needs to be a win-win because the cap makes mistakes that more costly.

I don't think this trade will affect Treliving's reputation as much as Waddell's. Waddell made another bad trade, and the Flames have liked Lindholm for a while. Treliving could say... after having six 2013 first round picks in the organization it is nice to have two turn out great.

Still, a GM has to be aware and cautious of the optics. The days of blowhards like Glen Sather pronouncing how great he would be in Edmonton if he had the Rangers budget are gone because everyone else is waiting to pump it down your throat when you grandstand.

Even Burke learned this lesson after pronouncing how he was going to get John Tavares with the Leafs in the 2009 Entry Draft.

Maybe be less condescending. You want more modern? OK. How about Treliving? He won trades for Berra, Glencross, Reinhart, Hudler, Seiloff, and arguably Hamilton. Yet he still managed to trade after that.

[VilleN]

This whole discussion about Treliving needing to be careful about winning trades is about the dumbest I've seen on here.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Hamonic and a 2nd for kotalik!

Every great successful team needs a shootout specialist.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Every great successful team needs a shootout specialist.

Great teams dont go the shootout.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Every great successful team needs a shootout specialist.

Flames had Schlemko and let him go.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by VilleN

This whole discussion about Treliving needing to be careful about winning trades is about the dumbest I've seen on here.

Yeah, I would be more worried if our GM had a penchant for bad trades (ie Chia). Is no team going to trade with Doug Wilson again?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by VilleN

This whole discussion about Treliving needing to be careful about winning trades is about the dumbest I've seen on here.

Winning a trade is fine, as long the other GM (or GMs) do not feel like you pulled a fast one. There has to be transparency and honesty to show that you are dealing in good faith. A big part of the job is building trust and relationships.

If you "win" a trade, I don't think any GM would hold it against you. But if you purposely "fleece" the other GM by not disclosing any and all issues, it wouldn't be good for your reputation. Maybe it's just my definition of the word "fleece" in this scenario, but I take it as meaning that one side took advantage. The dictionary definition is "to swindle". No one wants to deal with someone that swindles another person.

For example, if Carolina traded Lindholm or Hanifin and misled the Flames on the contract requests, it would be bad. Or if a player is being traded because of locker room or off ice issues and the team didn't mention those, and resulted in a "fleecing", it would hurt their rep.

It's a general principle in business. If you are selling something and you ask why the person is selling, if they don't give you an honest answer and it backfires on you, you are not going to rush to do business with that person in the future, nor would many other people. If Treliving can work out a professional relationship with Carolina where the trades are fair for both, it would be really beneficial in the future.

[monkeyman]

If BT needs any help coming up with a bad trade, he need look no further than the trade speculation and rumours thread for ideas.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Lindholm's ability to play the PK effectively is pretty huge.

Not just effectively, he’s probably been just as good as backlund on the PK. Maybe better, guy is an absolute workhorse

[browna]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Winning a trade is fine, as long the other GM (or GMs) do not feel like you pulled a fast one. There has to be transparency and honesty to show that you are dealing in good faith. A big part of the job is building trust and relationships.

If you "win" a trade, I don't think any GM would hold it against you. But if you purposely "fleece" the other GM by not disclosing any and all issues, it wouldn't be good for your reputation. Maybe it's just my definition of the word "fleece" in this scenario, but I take it as meaning that one side took advantage. The dictionary definition is "to swindle". No one wants to deal with someone that swindles another person.

For example, if Carolina traded Lindholm or Hanifin and misled the Flames on the contract requests, it would be bad. Or if a player is being traded because of locker room or off ice issues and the team didn't mention those, and resulted in a "fleecing", it would hurt their rep.

It's a general principle in business. If you are selling something and you ask why the person is selling, if they don't give you an honest answer and it backfires on you, you are not going to rush to do business with that person in the future, nor would many other people. If Treliving can work out a professional relationship with Carolina where the trades are fair for both, it would be really beneficial in the future.

You’re making it sound far more formal then it is. Agents are involved here too, as are pro scouts,who chat informally with the other teams pro scouts, who,all chat with the GMs of both teams. PR guys, other team officials, etc, there is a lot of people who can discuss a player or situation with their counterparts on another team long before a trade is consummated. Other players can chat with players on the other team and get that intel about locker room issues too. In this day and age with all the instant electronic communication, any team who gets surprised by an issue, haven’t properly done their basic homework.

Carolina had an owner who wanted to make changes, sooner than later as soon as he came in. As soon as it was official back in Feb or March, agents started feeling out the team for their contract renegotiation likelihood, a guy like Peters likely had discreet discussions with his situation, etc etc.

And what issues? Boston when trading Hamilton, hinted at the same things hinted at publically about Hamilton on his way out of Calgary, behind the scenes I’m sure people on Carolina like people around the league, were well aware of the potential for those issues to arise again. Ferland had concussion issues here too, that’s on video at very least, and IR from last year and probably going back to Brandon too.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe be less condescending. You want more modern? OK. How about Treliving? He won trades for Berra, Glencross, Reinhart, Hudler, Seiloff, and arguably Hamilton. Yet he still managed to trade after that.

He didn’t trade Berra, Burke did.

I’m not being condescending I’m being factual. Cliff Fletcher is as valid a comparison for Treliving as Serge Savard. They are from a completely different era.

Glencross & Hudler were trade deadline deals so the teams acquiring them were looking for short term help. Reinhart & Seiloff were win/win trades as well. I don’t think the Predators even met the games played condition for the Flames to receive the pick for Reinhart. Seiloff lasted longer with the Senators than Chiasson did with the Flames.

If any of these trades are “wins” they’re still a long ways away from embarrassing the other team that made them to the point where they won’t deal with the Flames anymore.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by VilleN

This whole discussion about Treliving needing to be careful about winning trades is about the dumbest I've seen on here.

Especially since many posters in this thread were originally of the opinion that it was Treliving who initially got fleeced on the trade.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Itse]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

If any of these trades are “wins” they’re still a long ways away from embarrassing the other team that made them to the point where they won’t deal with the Flames anymore.

This.

In the Lindholm etc. trade, one side winning was always going to be a possibility, but a lot of things had to happen before this started to look like such a huge win for the Flames.

In an alternate reality, it's Lindholm who suffers a conccussion and Ferland who takes a big step forward, finds consistency and chemistry with Carolinas first line and starts putting up 35 goals per season. Then Fox signs in Carolina and becomes a star defenseman while Hanifin never quite fullfills his potential, ending up as a nice #3 D-man but no more. Haven't even mentioned Hamilton there, who had the potential to be excellent under the right circumstances.

The trade was fine on paper the day it was made, both ways. I could still turn out just fine for Carolina. Nobody got fleeced.

Flames getting overpayment for Glencross wasn't a fleecing either, it was a deadline auction and that was the highest offer. There were very likely other interested teams, and Glencross falling on his face THAT badly was I'm sure a surprise to most. The guy had scored at .5 PPG or better for seven seasons in a row, and was still on that pace at the time of the trade. (It's still one of the most abrupt ends to a career I can think of that wasn't because of an injury.) I doubt other GM's give credit to Treliving for this, it was just the Capitals overpaying for too much risk and getting burnt.

Point being, trades are always bets, you win some and lose some. What separates the good from the bad is putting in the homework to really know what you're betting on, and knowing what bets are worth the risk. Unless you're clearly deceitful, I don't think there's really such a thing as fleecing another GM. Occasionally you end up taking advantage of someone's stupidity, but that's on them, not you.

Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson for example wasn't so much a good trade by New Jersey as it was a terrible trade by the Oilers. Or at least that's how I think GM's are looking at it.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Oh no. Treliving better make a stupid trade so that other GMs won't catch on to how smart he is.

Maybe his FA work each year is an elobarate ruse to set up the big win trades?

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Phagoof

Not necessarily a good thing. I really wish Hamilton worked out for the Canes. GM's might be wary of dealing with Tre now in trades.