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Old 11-25-2019, 10:00 AM   #141
Erick Estrada
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Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers View Post
It just seems like your trying very hard to find reasons it won’t work. And that’s just not how humans do things. We make things work.

“You’re telling me that we are going to have electric pumps with huge underground tanks full of fuel, located everywhere, so that thousands of cars can use them to fill up? How do we get the fuel there!?!? What happens when it runs out? A huge tanker truck is going to deliver more fuel!? Ridiculous!” Made it happen.
He does have valid points as some of you are being a little naive. This is going to take a lot of time, planning, and money with the big question being "who's money". I get it that this is an era where nobody has any patience but this whole electrification of the automobile isn't going to happen overnight as it's going to be long and gradual into the next decades.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:02 AM   #142
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He does have valid points as some of you are being a little naive. This is going to take a lot of time, planning, and money with the big question being "who's money". I get it that this is an era where nobody has any patience but this whole electrification of the automobile isn't going to happen overnight as it's going to be long and gradual into the next decades.
Is anybody doubting that?
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:03 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
He does have valid points as some of you are being a little naive. This is going to take a lot of time, planning, and money with the big question being "who's money". I get it that this is an era where nobody has any patience but this whole electrification of the automobile isn't going to happen overnight as it's going to be long and gradual into the next decades.
I’m not saying that it will.

What I am saying is that the majority of people could switch to an electric car tomorrow and go about their day to day as usual without worrying about range.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:06 AM   #144
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The fact that the box of my 2016 F-150 is functionally indistinguishable from my Grandpa's 1972 F-150 is ridiculous.
A lot of good points. This in particular is funny in how obvious it is and I never even considered it.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:09 AM   #145
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Build out of O&G infrastructure took 100 years. There is merit to the argument we don't have the infrastructure to quickly support mass electrification, especially outside person vehicles. Just one electric vehicle per home will double the grid load on a typical residential area. Total generating capacity will need to rise substantially (30-50%) over the next decades to support this.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:12 AM   #146
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Build out of O&G infrastructure took 100 years. There is merit to the argument we don't have the infrastructure to quickly support mass electrification, especially outside person vehicles. Just one electric vehicle per home will double the grid load on a typical residential area. Total generating capacity will need to rise substantially (30-50%) over the next decades to support this.
No arguments here.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:25 AM   #147
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Hey - here is a gif of the box cover closing. Anybody know how to imbed this?

https://imgur.com/a/8ERO6AY
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:35 AM   #148
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like this [webm]https://i.imgur.com/vv1Fjxr.mp4[ /webm] (remove the space)



Link
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:10 AM   #149
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No ####. But land, copper, stations, and a tie in to the grid to the tune of MW power doesn't come free . You think that's a good investment opportunity, and if so at what fee.....20-30 spots at $2-5/hr? I guess we can count on you guys to step up and build these seemingly cost neutral endeavors. EV supporters in here talking about home charging like its going to wipe out or negate roadside charging, when you have THOUSANDS of cars going down the highway, more than a few need to stop for fuel....tying up 20-30 spots for 30min-1hr is just inefficient. You want more than that, well I think the math was done already to what the load would be like, good luck finding the supply
What makes you think they would only charge $2-5 an hour for DC fast charging? In BC, Level 3 chargers are usually $0.35 per kw/hr which works out to almost $20/hr per station with a 50kw charger and more like $50-60 an hour with a 150kw one.

50KW Level 3 stations are about $100K each all in (about $50K for the unit/installation + $50K in other capital costs) but that can be cheaper if you have a large cluster of them. Running costs are quite low (about $1-1.5K a year for maintenance and network operator fees from what I understand), so assuming a 10 year time frame you're looking at about $11-12K a year. After electricity costs, and let's say they're netting $0.25 per kw. So to hit $12K a year they'd need to sell 48,000 kw, which translates to about 2.5 hrs a day of charging at each station.

So not really viable right now given current usage, but if it gets to the point where there are long waits for chargers and a consistent demand? I don't see why they couldn't make economic sense, or at least be revenue neutral if government or public utilities wanted to take them on (BC Hydro is doing this in BC).
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:23 PM   #150
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https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-main-...ork-1840110802


Huh. Who would have thought?
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:43 PM   #151
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Huh. Who would have thought?

Those are the situations where things could get ugly.


How much personalization is there between cars? Get out your luggage and baby seats or whatever and put it into a car that's charged and waiting. Just do a bit of inside detailing and stuff while its charging and it's like new. It would be no different than switching rental cars. People just need to accept this.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:04 PM   #152
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Those are the situations where things could get ugly.


How much personalization is there between cars? Get out your luggage and baby seats or whatever and put it into a car that's charged and waiting. Just do a bit of inside detailing and stuff while its charging and it's like new. It would be no different than switching rental cars. People just need to accept this.
Just like the first gen Formula E pit stops!



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Old 12-02-2019, 01:27 PM   #153
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That's a pretty unique situation. That was Thanksgiving weekend where the I-5 was closed due to snow which diverted pretty much all North/South traffic in and out of LA to the 101.

And even then, I'm not sure that demand outstripping supply of charging stations is really an argument against viability of EVs in the long term.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:51 PM   #154
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I'm not saying it isn't viable, just pointing out there will be challenges that are not necessarily trivial to address. This looked to be one of those situations. It's not unusual for the TCH to get closed in the winter. So we should be aware of issues that may arise because of that. If it's -20 and you are stuck on the side of the road for hours, how does an EV heater hold up? And once it goes again, you would have loads of vehicles needing a charge to get home.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:53 PM   #155
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How long did it take and how much did it cost to build out the gasoline infrastructure. That's what you compare it to.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:03 PM   #156
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How long did it take and how much did it cost to build out the gasoline infrastructure. That's what you compare it to.

Aren't gas stations relatively simple though? They don't even *really* need any supporting infrastructure - worst-case you need a backup generator to run the pumps in the event of a power outage. Maybe I am oversimplifying how I think a gas station works though.

However, you have places right now that can barely function during summers because air conditioners and bitcoin farms are causing blackouts.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:06 PM   #157
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There's probably going to be some equilibrium that occurs. Once people are getting charged (pardon the pun) to charge their EVs, maybe fewer people will feel there is enough incentive.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:13 PM   #158
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Aren't gas stations relatively simple though?
Petrol station is complex and subject to all manner of codes. A giant tank or tanks is required (and needs constant checking for leaks) and of course said tank has to be filled via truck. It costs about $2.5 million to build the average petrol station a typical EV station costs about $100K from what I've read.

I've never seen a gas station with backup power have you?
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:39 PM   #159
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Petrol station is complex and subject to all manner of codes. A giant tank or tanks is required (and needs constant checking for leaks) and of course said tank has to be filled via truck. It costs about $2.5 million to build the average petrol station a typical EV station costs about $100K from what I've read.

I've never seen a gas station with backup power have you?

No, but how do you pump gas if there's a power outage?
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:01 PM   #160
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I wonder if Telsa's software knows about the usage for certain stops and tells you about peak usage? If not that would be handy.
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