[CP Story] Top Six Construction: The Squeeze

[dammage79]

Two. And I stand by the idea that they should be players like Elias Lindholm and Brandon Saad.

[1qqaaz]

The tumber of forwards required to make the playoffs? Probably just 1 good forward. I agree with the conservative estimate outlined in OP article.
They have the cap space to potentially sign 2 guys if need be. Maybe trade for one, sign the other.
I think Treliving can and will acquire a top six winger. It shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I'm more worried about goaltending. Smith is 36. He's due for some regression. And Someone else will have to play 30+ games for the Flames.

If Treliving had handle these 2 problems before the start of next season, I'll be happy. I don't care too much about the draft this year. It's mostly a window to get a deal done.

[Corral]

If the Flames decide that either or both of Bennett or Jankowski will become top 6 forwards within the next 2 seasons ... than i would say do not trade to fill that role. I'm sure the expectation was that at least Bennett would be on 2L when they went all in with Hamonic to fill out the top 4 defence.

Decision this offseason is to figure out whether to stay that course or not. Its really that simple. If they figure neither is ready for top 6 before 2020, then its time to move a Dman for someone who will.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The tumber of forwards required to make the playoffs? Probably just 1 good forward. I agree with the conservative estimate outlined in OP article.
They have the cap space to potentially sign 2 guys if need be. Maybe trade for one, sign the other.
I think Treliving can and will acquire a top six winger. It shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I'm more worried about goaltending. Smith is 36. He's due for some regression. And Someone else will have to play 30+ games for the Flames.

If Treliving had handle these 2 problems before the start of next season, I'll be happy. I don't care too much about the draft this year. It's mostly a window to get a deal done.

Agreed on goaltending.

I think Smith will be "fine" for another year but I was hoping he would be challenged by the second year of his two year Calgary stint and that may not happen.

Gillies and Rittich are coming along, but it would take an optimist to have either battling Smith next year. I think Parsons is still the guy but he's 2 years away at least.

Projection wise I'm guessing I'm low on the top line as I think the guy coming in could be 25-30, I think Monahan could be a 40 goal guy if he plays the whole year like he played the first half, and Gaudreau should get close to 30 if he has two productive linemates instead of one and an injured player.

Second line I do think Backlund centers and bounces back, and I think Tkachuk will move into the 30 goal club as well. If Ferland is their winger I think 18 is probably likely.

That sets the top two lines at 40+30+25 which is only 3 goals back.
That sets the second line to 30+20+18 which is 68 which is actually up on the NHL second line.

Third line is the mystery with Jankowski, Bennett, Frolik and what they do as a trio.

[SeanCharles]

We have 8 players that are ideal for top 9 duty so acquiring one higher end guy should do the trick. Dube, Mangiapane and Foo can battle it out for the remaining holes along with Lazar, Shore and possibly Hathaway/Brouwer.

If the prospects warrant top 9 icetime you can always push a guy like Frolik down to the 4th line.

[Owen15]

I would love to know how Jankowski’s off season is going.

I voted one for the reasons Bingo wrote. I really believe our team’s success hinges on a strong 2a/2b outcome this year with Jankowski and Backs delivering excellent two way play. If we are counting on Brower or Hathaway in any top 9 capacity it’ll be a lot like last year. If we find Foo is in any way mentioned in the Calder discussion, Bennett benefits (say that 10 times fast) from a new coach and we add a top 6 RHS RW I believe we will be a contender.

Now, there are 20-22 teams that also could point to three things that would propel them to contender status too.

Pass the bath water I’ll have a double.

Bingo, thanks for all you contribute to the site and best wishes for health and happiness.

[Strange Brew]

A forward who could make those around him better is what they need IMO. So a playmaking center who can score a few vs . a scoring winger who needs a playmaker to truly produce.

Of course this doesn’t grow on trees and so I’m ok with trying to develop said player if at all possible.

[Flash Walken]

I don't think one player is enough.

There is the notion that a trickle down effect will happen with the addition of a top 6 player to play with Monahan and gaudreau. I don't think this is necessarily accurate or predictable as a guy like ferland or backlund in my opinion are not as productive without their finishing counterparts. in my opinion this is a component limiting the impact of tkachuk, his linemates aren't good enough to help him be that impact 35 goal 70 point player, but the options are limited right now to get him to be that player without hurting the overall fortunes of the team.

For example what is the knock-on impact of ferland being separated from gaudreau and Monahan? Less overall team success in my opinion.

The goal needs to be assembling a team that is likely to be a top 10 offensive team. A team you can look at on paper and suggest barring injury there are 3-4 candidates very likely to hit the 70 point threshold. The flames really only have one of those players right now. The knock-on impact of a Ryan O'Reilly or maybe even a Skinner impact is potentially turning 1 or 2 more guys into that 70 point threshold, but that still means the bottom 6 needs an addition in offense.

In an example where Skinner is acquired and pushes ferland down the lineup for example, is ferland going to score 20 with backlund as his center? In my opinion that is not likely, which means the problem of depth scoring largely remains.

I don't think you can say internal development will or is even likely to bridge that gap. I don't think you can expect Jankowski and Bennett to produce much more offense with Frolik on their wing as compared to Hathaway, and that's the problem. A top 6 addition doesn't open up more pp time for Bennett or ferland, it likely limits it, which means offensive growth from them will have to come at even strength, and I don't think frolik really provides enough impact in that regard.

To get the trickle down requires moving essentially the entire 2nd line down. Frolik/backlund/Bennett could be that third line option again, but to do that means bringing in a center and a winger who are legit top 6 players; tough task.

To be a legitimate top 10 team in scoring means acquiring a player like Skinner and O'Reilly so that a top 6 injury doesn't completely gut the teams offense like happened last year.

Barring that, you need at least one of those types of players and then a top tier bottom 6 player, and everything to go right. Like you said in your article, I don't think the flames can bank on that for the second season in a row.

If the flames want to win the expectation needs to be a top 10 offensive team next year, and that means adding ~50 goals to the roster that aren't there now. Maybe they don't end up finishing top 10 due to a variety of reasons but they need to have that capacity based on the most recent history of the players assembled on paper. 2x 30 goal scorers, 2x25 goal scorers, 3x 15-20 goal scorers.

Tall order to address that in one off season.

[Jason14h]

Minimum 2. The Flames forwards were among the healthiest for 3/4 of the season and couldn’t score enough. Once guys started getting injuries they could score at all.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think one player is enough.

There is the notion that a trickle down effect will happen with the addition of a top 6 player to play with Monahan and gaudreau. I don't think this is necessarily accurate or predictable as a guy like ferland or backlund in my opinion are not as productive without their finishing counterparts. in my opinion this is a component limiting the impact of tkachuk, his linemates aren't good enough to help him be that impact 35 goal 70 point player, but the options are limited right now to get him to be that player without hurting the overall fortunes of the team.

For example what is the knock-on impact of ferland being separated from gaudreau and Monahan? Less overall team success in my opinion.

The goal needs to be assembling a team that is likely to be a top 10 offensive team. A team you can look at on paper and suggest barring injury there are 3-4 candidates very likely to hit the 70 point threshold. The flames really only have one of those players right now. The knock-on impact of a Ryan O'Reilly or maybe even a Skinner impact is potentially turning 1 or 2 more guys into that 70 point threshold, but that still means the bottom 6 needs an addition in offense.

In an example where Skinner is acquired and pushes ferland down the lineup for example, is ferland going to score 20 with backlund as his center? In my opinion that is not likely, which means the problem of depth scoring largely remains.

I don't think you can say internal development will or is even likely to bridge that gap. I don't think you can expect Jankowski and Bennett to produce much more offense with Frolik on their wing as compared to Hathaway, and that's the problem. A top 6 addition doesn't open up more pp time for Bennett or ferland, it likely limits it, which means offensive growth from them will have to come at even strength, and I don't think frolik really provides enough impact in that regard.

To get the trickle down requires moving essentially the entire 2nd line down. Frolik/backlund/Bennett could be that third line option again, but to do that means bringing in a center and a winger who are legit top 6 players; tough task.

To be a legitimate top 10 team in scoring means acquiring a player like Skinner and O'Reilly so that a top 6 injury doesn't completely gut the teams offense like happened last year.

Barring that, you need at least one of those types of players and then a top tier bottom 6 player, and everything to go right. Like you said in your article, I don't think the flames can bank on that for the second season in a row.

If the flames want to win the expectation needs to be a top 10 offensive team next year, and that means adding ~50 goals to the roster that aren't there now. Maybe they don't end up finishing top 10 due to a variety of reasons but they need to have that capacity based on the most recent history of the players assembled on paper. 2x 30 goal scorers, 2x25 goal scorers, 3x 15-20 goal scorers.

Tall order to address that in one off season.

I think it’s unlikely but possible. Any acquisition has absolutely got to result in a new 2nd line with Tkachuk and a new guy. Someone who as you say makes the others on the line better. IDK, it’d be great to have a triple crown type scenario but does that happen anymore?

The more I read and think about this the more I think we’re talking about someone to play with Tkachuk.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Owen15

I think it’s unlikely but possible. Any acquisition has absolutely got to result in a new 2nd line with Tkachuk and a new guy. Someone who as you say makes the others on the line better. IDK, it’d be great to have a triple crown type scenario but does that happen anymore?

The more I read and think about this the more I think we’re talking about someone to play with Tkachuk.

Say the scenario is Skinner, highly likely in my mind. Where does Skinner play for Calgary? I slot him in on the second line with backlund and tkachuk to see if you can put backlund over the 60 point barrier and justify that contract. Leave ferland with the top group in that scenario and see if you can't have 5 forwards finish with 20+ goals.

Getting someone to play with tkachuk is absolutely a priority, and I think that player needs to be a finisher. Subpar finishers is probably the reason he doesn't have a 60 point season already.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Say the scenario is Skinner, highly likely in my mind. Where does Skinner play for Calgary? I slot him in on the second line with backlund and tkachuk to see if you can put backlund over the 60 point barrier and justify that contract. Leave ferland with the top group in that scenario and see if you can't have 5 forwards finish with 20+ goals.

Getting someone to play with tkachuk is absolutely a priority, and I think that player needs to be a finisher. Subpar finishers is probably the reason he doesn't have a 60 point season already.

Tkachuk and Skinner are both LW's though...Skinner really doesnt fill a need.

[Owen15]

Skinner for me is not an intuitive answer for us.

Nino maybe although LHS RW

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Tkachuk and Skinner are both LW's though...Skinner really doesnt fill a need.

Agree, but guys who can score 30 goals from the wing are tough to come by. Few are affordable, even fewer available.

Pretty sure he came into the league as a left shooting right wing. Maybe that's how Maurice (?) Chose to use him.

Tkachuk would have to move to the right side to play with Monahan and gaudreau, maybe he can move to the right side to play with Skinner.

Someone spitball with me here, who are the right handed right wing players believed to be available right now who can score 25-35 goals?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Say the scenario is Skinner, highly likely in my mind. Where does Skinner play for Calgary? I slot him in on the second line with backlund and tkachuk to see if you can put backlund over the 60 point barrier and justify that contract. Leave ferland with the top group in that scenario and see if you can't have 5 forwards finish with 20+ goals.

Getting someone to play with tkachuk is absolutely a priority, and I think that player needs to be a finisher. Subpar finishers is probably the reason he doesn't have a 60 point season already.

Someone to play with Tkachuk...

Ryan O'Reilly. Damn I would love to see that.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Someone to play with Tkachuk...

Ryan O'Reilly. Damn I would love to see that.

On paper he solves a ton of problems for the flames, but the acquisition cost is probably prohibitive now after spending so many assets in the last two years.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

On paper he solves a ton of problems for the flames, but the acquisition cost is probably prohibitive now after spending so many assets in the last two years.

Certainly not interested in giving futures for him, that's for sure. But if it's a hockey trade I'm in. Something like Brodie + Bennett or Jankowski which IMO should be enough. If it's not, well then on to the next I guess.

I still think Treliving has ROR on the back burner (as many teams do right now) while everyone awaits the outcome of the Tavares sweeps.

I also think Hayes would be a potential target as well. I will be surprised if the Flames go into next season with Monahan, Backlund and Jankowski as their top 3 centers. I think Treliving acquires another one capable of being at least a good 2C.

[Poe969]

Tavares/ROR
Stone/Lindholm/Nylander
Perron/Tom Wilson/Riley Nash/Sam Reinhart/Sprong/Kase
Ryan Reves/Armia/Baptiste/

I think a legit top 6 C is a must a high end rw would make a huge difference and if they could add a third line guy who could actually score, it would be huge. They can't get all of that from the UFA pool, they'll have to make some trades both to make room and to acquire the new players. If they can get ROR I would give up one of Backlund or Janko if the deal had other players involved. I'd seriously consider trading Ferland, I think his value is at an all time high. I think this roster needs a few more players to compete

[dissentowner]

If we added a true top line RW we would be good to go.

[Flashpoint]

I said zero for what is I imagine a fairly uncommon opinion.

I want to see Peters break up Monahan and Gaudreau. Put one with Bennett and one with Jankowski, and see if either of our former first rounders have any top 6 potential when playing with someone who can finish.

I just figure we would have to overpay to fill an additional top six spot, either via trade or ufa, so I’d rather try to make the most of the assets we have.

You can’t really say either Bennett or Janko has had much of an opportunity with a real top flight player on their line.

Anyway - can’t imagine it is going to be a popular opinion. But I’d like to see Peters try something totally different with this forward lineup.

(and I’d like to see Brodie switched back to his preferred side before cutting bait)