The Legend of Sam Bennett

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He didn't need his linemates to generate the chances for him, actually. He needed linemates who could finish chances and play at a high pace with their speed.

Bennett's lines have never been at a shortage of chances.

It looked to me more like he was trying to do everything himself and didn't like using his line mates, much to the frustration of everyone.

Over the past few seasons, he averaged almost identical ice time to Mangiapane, Lucic, and Ryan, yet was less productive. Using Mangiapane as an example, he showed he could be reasonably productive in the bottom 6 and was promoted based on that. Why could he do it and Bennett couldn't if it wasn't Bennett that needed line mates to support him, rather than Bennett needing line mates to support?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t know that this is true. I don’t know the stats but it always looked to me like Bennett couldn’t even see his linemates. Tunnel vision was a pretty consistent complaint. His PO performances were often built off chances generated by Lucic or Dube. I haven’t seen Bennett (even when he’s good) being a chance generator as much as a sledgehammer finisher.

Re: bolded

confirmation bias.

Bennett regularity set up Jankowski, Reider, Neal, Hathaway, etc out of the cycle.

The only time tunnel vision might have been a legitimate complaint was the Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer line.

Which goes back to the other issue - players who can play with pace. Bennett was regularly leading the rush with guys like that lugging along behind him.

He uses his linemates well when they're speedy, and does so by making forward passes instead of drop passes in transition.

He'll never be a guy to button hook around and wait for his linemates to catch up to the play. What this gets misconstrued as is "tunnel vision" when it's actually just.. playing with pace.

Something this lineup could stand to do more of.

Over the past few seasons, he averaged almost identical ice time to Mangiapane, Lucic, and Ryan, yet was less productive. Using Mangiapane as an example, he showed he could be reasonably productive in the bottom 6 and was promoted based on that. Why could he do it and Bennett couldn't if it wasn't Bennett that needed line mates to support him, rather than Bennett needing line mates to support?

1) Mangiapane was regularly playing with Backlund, Tkachuk, and Ryan. Bennett was regularly playing with Jankowski, Neal, Reider, Leivo, Ritchie, etc.

2) Mangiapane is also a pure sniper. Maybe the best pure sniper on this roster, period. Comparing him to ANYONE is unfair because he can snipe goals out of nothing chances.

3) A good deal of Lucic's production came on the powerplay. A situation Bennett was not even utilized in. I'd bet Bennett outproduced him at ES as a Flame.

4) You're also neglecting to mention the fact that Bennett clearly isn't comfortable at RW, and is comfortable at center. You can't evaluate a LHS center as a RW. Backlund looked awful at RW too. Dube hasn't looked great at RW either. How productive would Ryan be as a LW?

5) Again, someone has to finish. Tobias Reider had 2 goals on 71 shots 5v5 as a Flame. His expected goal based on the quality of those chances was 7.03. That's at least five assists Bennett didn't pick up simply because Tobias Reider could not score.

[Wastedyouth]

Bennett is riding a sky high PDO including some ridiculous shooting percentages.

That is all.

He is what he was in Calgary. Just has a couple crazy dominant line mates.

He'll be Jankowski-ing on the 4th line in no time.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Bennett is riding a sky high PDO including some ridiculous shooting percentages.

That is all.

He is what he was in Calgary. Just has a couple crazy dominant line mates.

He'll be Jankowski-ing on the 4th line in no time.

Just a quibble, but PDO is literally shooting percentage plus save percentage, and Bennett has no measurable impact on save percentage. Why use PDO when shooting percentage is a more direct metric?

If Florida’s goalie was a sieve then Bennett’s PDO would be pretty average since high shooting % would be cancelled by low save %. It’s a useless stat for an individual player.

[Saqe]

Why even look at shooting percentages, he's played nine games for the Panthers. These stats are meaningless in such a low sample size.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Just a quibble, but PDO is literally shooting percentage plus save percentage, and Bennett has no measurable impact on save percentage. Why use PDO when shooting percentage is a more direct metric?

If Florida’s goalie was a sieve then Bennett’s PDO would be pretty average since high shooting % would be cancelled by low save %. It’s a useless stat for an individual player.

Because his on ice save percentage is also sky high.

But I wanted to highlight the shooting percentage because it is more relevant for my point.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The time I was mocked mercilessly was when I made Marc Savard comparisons.

18 points in his last 13 GP.

Should be rather intriguing to see how he does in these upcoming playoffs.

LOL you compared Bennett to Marc Savard??

Better comparison would be Fernando Pisani in the playoff run. He still has pretty low hockey IQ and that's hard to fix.

[powderjunkie]

Bennett was the primary slingshot zone-entry guy on PP1 for the last several games...and a lot more successful at it than Johnny this year.

He plays PK1 with Barkov.

Some of the outcomes are unlikely to be sustainable, but has been a net positive contributor in a ton of ways. Even is the pts dry up and some of his bad habits creep in, he'll still be a very, very useful player.


Do missed-net shots count in shooting %? Because he has missed the net on a lot of Grade A chances. IMO there's a good chance a few of those start going in (or at least hitting the net) if he can continue building his confidence.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Re: bolded

confirmation bias.

Bennett regularity set up Jankowski, Reider, Neal, Hathaway, etc out of the cycle.

The only time tunnel vision might have been a legitimate complaint was the Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer line.

Which goes back to the other issue - players who can play with pace. Bennett was regularly leading the rush with guys like that lugging along behind him.

He uses his linemates well when they're speedy, and does so by making forward passes instead of drop passes in transition.

He'll never be a guy to button hook around and wait for his linemates to catch up to the play. What this gets misconstrued as is "tunnel vision" when it's actually just.. playing with pace.

Something this lineup could stand to do more of.



1) Mangiapane was regularly playing with Backlund, Tkachuk, and Ryan. Bennett was regularly playing with Jankowski, Neal, Reider, Leivo, Ritchie, etc.

2) Mangiapane is also a pure sniper. Maybe the best pure sniper on this roster, period. Comparing him to ANYONE is unfair because he can snipe goals out of nothing chances.

3) A good deal of Lucic's production came on the powerplay. A situation Bennett was not even utilized in. I'd bet Bennett outproduced him at ES as a Flame.

4) You're also neglecting to mention the fact that Bennett clearly isn't comfortable at RW, and is comfortable at center. You can't evaluate a LHS center as a RW. Backlund looked awful at RW too. Dube hasn't looked great at RW either. How productive would Ryan be as a LW?

5) Again, someone has to finish. Tobias Reider had 2 goals on 71 shots 5v5 as a Flame. His expected goal based on the quality of those chances was 7.03. That's at least five assists Bennett didn't pick up simply because Tobias Reider could not score.

I don’t see how it’s confirmation bias because I wasn’t looking for it. I just noted a common complaint. The tunnel vision I’m talking about is not passing to open linemates and skating into traffic instead. Has nothing to do with a button hook.

Toby Reider? Talk about cherry picking linemates. Last year Bennett played 13% with Reider and Jankowski. He played 12.1% with Lucic and Ryan. That’s a fractional difference and you picked the least skilled guy to talk about. He played 8% with Lucic and Dube, 7,6% with Dube and Ryan.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Duclair is “crazy dominant”. You heard it here first.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Duclair is “crazy dominant”. You heard it here first.

Look who's typicall on the ice when Bennett is picking up points, you goofball.

Yes Duclair plays with him on the PP, but so does Huberdeau, and typically, Barkov.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t know that this is true. I don’t know the stats but it always looked to me like Bennett couldn’t even see his linemates. Tunnel vision was a pretty consistent complaint. His PO performances were often built off chances generated by Lucic or Dube. I haven’t seen Bennett (even when he’s good) being a chance generator as much as a sledgehammer finisher.

Careful, your bias is leaking.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Careful, your bias is leaking.

I don’t have a bias where Bennett is concerned. I liked him, wanted him to succeed, thought maybe he should have been given more rope. But I saw what I saw. And saying I don’t know the stats is admitting my eyes may be deceiving me - so the opposite of bias.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Look who's typicall on the ice when Bennett is picking up points, you goofball.

Yes Duclair plays with him on the PP, but so does Huberdeau, and typically, Barkov.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...&situation=ALL

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...L&situation=EV

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think the Marc Savard situation was less forgivable. He actually was producing as expected. It was the opposite situation where Gilbert, had some very unrealistic expectations for him to play outside his skillset. It would have been like demoting and scratching Gaudreau for not playing a crash and bang style.

I'm not excusing the Flames for their handling of Savard.

Savard's dad was a large problem back in the day, then I think ego's got involved. Terrible trade.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Bennett was the primary slingshot zone-entry guy on PP1 for the last several games...and a lot more successful at it than Johnny this year.

He plays PK1 with Barkov.

Some of the outcomes are unlikely to be sustainable, but has been a net positive contributor in a ton of ways. Even is the pts dry up and some of his bad habits creep in, he'll still be a very, very useful player.

Do missed-net shots count in shooting %? Because he has missed the net on a lot of Grade A chances. IMO there's a good chance a few of those start going in (or at least hitting the net) if he can continue building his confidence.

Just to pick on the one bolded piece above, the Flames zone entries on the PP seem super successful to me and Johnny's one of the best in the business at it. It's pretty rare that there's a giveaway there. But for some reason it seems to be a common theme around here that it's not very successful. Fight me

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by heep223

Just to pick on the one bolded piece above, the Flames zone entries on the PP seem super successful to me and Johnny's one of the best in the business at it. It's pretty rare that there's a giveaway there. But for some reason it seems to be a common theme around here that it's not very successful. Fight me

In the midst of the darkest times this season it was pretty awful. But it's not fair to compare small sample sizes to small sample sizes.

Shade at Johnny withdrawn; he has been a lot better lately.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...&situation=ALL

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...L&situation=EV

I am confused.

You just proved my point.

Was that the point?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by heep223

Just to pick on the one bolded piece above, the Flames zone entries on the PP seem super successful to me and Johnny's one of the best in the business at it. It's pretty rare that there's a giveaway there. But for some reason it seems to be a common theme around here that it's not very successful. Fight me

You aren't wrong.

It is a very weird complaint here, that really has no merit.

[dino7c]

Bennett can't carry a puck to save his life...better than Gaudreau at zone entries lol

Fack sake

Better at crashing the net and chopping wood I will give ya